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Unread 08-31-2011, 10:41 AM   #1
alby
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Divot Method Question

I checked out the Laticrete Hydro Ban Installation Instructions.

My question is:

1.) Is it possible to avoid the Divot Method altogether and simply construct a pre-pan liner using Hydro Ban from the bottom flange to the walls?

The instructions are as follows -
"Apply a liberal coat of liquid around and over the bottom half of
the drain-clamping ring... cover with a second liberal coat of liquid.

When dry, apply ... LATICRETE Latasil...at the drain throat. Install top half of drain clamping ring."


So essentially, it's apply 2 coats of Hydro Ban around the bottom flange. Then sandwich some silicone between the bottom flange and the top flange.

Detail 1 adds the Divot Method.

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I've done a PVC pan liner before. Given Details 1 and 2, I can't see why it can't be done with Hydro Ban.

You can still get the 1 1/2" height for the final slope. You can even invert the ring on an Oatey FHA drain or use an Ebbe drain riser to easily get that height.

Apart from incorporating a fortified mortar bed within the divot, I don't see any advantages. But ordinary deck mud will easily satisfy any psi requirements of the floor.

The only other thing of note is the thickness of the mortar bed in Detail 1. It's probably that way to negate the effects of deflection upon Hydro Ban's thin membrane.

Could that be why the Divot Method is used (along with a double layer of Hydro Ban and a fortified mortar bed at the drain?)


I suspect so.

But if this is true, then for concrete slab applications in stable soil areas, it is possible to avoid the Divot Method altogether.

Deck mud and the concrete underneath maybe more than enough to prevent the Hydro Ban from failing. The additional mortar bed thickness given in Detail 1 may not be necessary in that instance.

What do you think?
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Unread 08-31-2011, 11:11 AM   #2
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The advantages of the divot method are- one time mixing mud as opposed to doing the pre-slope, liquid liner, then mudding again.

Mud bed never gets wet.

Top detail drawing is possibly not to scale, and possibly shows the use of a clamping drain in a commercial food prep area, not a shower.

You may want to waste a few hours of your life looking at the "Frankengueuze shower system" thread. It's a tutorial of sorts.... kinda.... maybe. or not.

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Unread 08-31-2011, 11:37 AM   #3
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You also may be forgetting that the membrane needs to slope to the drain fitting.
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Unread 08-31-2011, 12:39 PM   #4
cx
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Why reinvent the wheel, Alby. If you don't wanna use the divot method, install a Kerdi drain and eliminate the incompatible drain problems all together.

Absent that, the divot is the only method by which a fella can use a clamping drain with the direct bonded waterproofing membrane and not have a dam at the drain opening. Unless, of course, you're willing to accept a bond between the membrane and the narrow plastic surface of the bottom portion of the drain.

Unfortunately, no one has yet given a good explanation on how the weep holes can possibly be expected to function with the big bead of silicone caulking filling them upon assembly per those instructions. 'Least none that I've seen.
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Unread 08-31-2011, 04:14 PM   #5
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Unread 08-31-2011, 04:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gueuze
Mud bed never gets wet.


I actually did it that way a few times as a pan liner 15 years ago with Laticrete 9235
trying to reinvent the wheel and discovered it was actually slower and not as good as
painting the surface and doing a divot.

I actually am doing one now on a master bath shower project in Brandon, Florida.
second floor/no slab. If I'm not doing a Schluter Kerdi shower its
a Laticrete HydroBarrier or HydroBan shower with a Divot.

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Unread 08-31-2011, 04:33 PM   #7
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CX said
Quote:
Unfortunately, no one has yet given a good explanation on how the weep holes can possibly be expected to function with the big bead of silicone caulking filling them upon assembly per those instructions. 'Least none that I've seen.
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Thats the part that doesn't make any sense to me either..I wonder if it is for added protection between the clamps where it would be stressing the hydro ban more so..being thinner and with bonding..by using the latisil you are destroying the weep holes but helping the seal.
Got to say if that is the case it certainly doesn't instill much confidence in the hydro to drain seal does it?
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Unread 08-31-2011, 06:12 PM   #8
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That's because you don't listen to me, we went through all this on Christmas.

Were talking about weep HOLES, not some rib in the bottom of the clamping ring, non?

And then when you fill up the edge of the divot with thinset, there is no area of standing water as was argued back in /december.

It's not even a moot point, it's fiction. You'd have just as much water loaded up against the edge of a kerdi drain grate assembly.

Of course that's only one hobbyists opinion.

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Unread 08-31-2011, 06:18 PM   #9
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Now tile the damn thing already, would ya?

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Unread 08-31-2011, 06:22 PM   #10
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even if the miniscule weep holes are clogged you still have the area the bolts go in and the grooves on the threaded area where you spin in the drain.

I see no use for the caulk around the outside of the clamping drain.
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Unread 08-31-2011, 08:28 PM   #11
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I agree gueuze it no different then the miniscule standing water around a kerdi drain. But still the question remains..why even do it if it bonds to the drain so well? Why do we need it?
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Unread 08-31-2011, 08:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
I see no use for the caulk around the outside of the clamping drain.
That's what I was just wonderin'. What is the caulk sealing?
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Unread 08-31-2011, 08:42 PM   #13
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I agree gueuze it no different then the miniscule standing water around a kerdi drain. But still the question remains..why even do it if it bonds to the drain so well? Why do we need it?
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Unread 08-31-2011, 10:01 PM   #14
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gueuzeman,

I saw the tutorial a few weeks ago and I think I saw you on youtube too. Nice work man

For some reason I thought you would look more like Luigi or Super Mario lol
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Unread 08-31-2011, 10:07 PM   #15
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cx,

you're right. I'll leave the wheel alone....
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