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Unread 11-20-2009, 08:55 AM   #1
Pete1972
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Pete's Master Bath Addition

Having just completed the remodel of one of the bathrooms in our house, my wife and I are ready to move on to our second project - adding a master bath to our house.

We live in a 1.5 story 1940's Cape Cod-style home built on a crawlspace with 2 x 10 joists 16" OC. The house has 2 bedrooms and one full bath (the recently remodeled one) upstairs and one bedroom and one full bath downstairs. The downstairs bath and bedroom are not connected, so our plan is to convert the full downstairs bath to a smaller half bath and use the other half of it as a bedroom closet. We then want to add a 12' x 15' addition to the bedroom and add a walk-in closet, linen closet and a full master bath. Hopefully the drawing below will help - the new construction is outlined in yellow.

Rather than hiring a GC we're going to do this ourselves while relying on the network of skilled and licensed friends we've used over the years. I'm hoping to meet this weekend with an architect friend to help us put out plans on paper so we can begin the permit approval process.

My wife and I are pretty fluid at this point on the types of materials we'll use in the bathroom, but I'd like to make sure the subfloor is able to support a natural stone tile should we decide to go that route. Given the addition size what type of joist layout and footing placement would you guys recommend (that might also be cost-effective)? My hopes are to somewhat grasp the deflection question when we meet with our architect so we'll have some knowledge when listening to her thoughts about the addition's foundation layout (as well as feeling assured that what she recommends will support a natural stone).

Thanks in advance for the help!

(PS - I'm not sure how to make the drawings appear larger - sorry).
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Unread 11-20-2009, 09:04 AM   #2
johnfrwhipple
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Bathroom Subfloor

I'm building my home as we speak and want to use Black Slate on the back deck.

Originally the framing was speced at 2"x10" 's on 12" centers (14' span) I ran this by "Deflecto" and it wasn't up to snuff. The hangers where in and I didn't want to move any work that was all ready done so we sister another 2"x10" to each exsisting 2"x10" and now have a "deflecto" rating over 1000.

You can use basic 2"x10" stock and put in Double floor joists, 15' span on 16" centers and be fine for natural stone.

Good Luck
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Unread 11-20-2009, 09:59 AM   #3
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Well that was easy...thanks John!
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Unread 04-12-2011, 07:53 AM   #4
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*Cleans cobwebs and dust off this thread*

Hi guys! My wife and I have expanded our family by one healthy (now 8 month-old) daughter so it's time to bring this one out of the mothballs.

We've met with an architect and engineer and changed the floorplan of the new addition somewhat, but the 12' x 15' overall size remains the same. (See new drawing).

We're probably a month or so away from breaking ground, and once the existing brick veneer comes down and the foundation work begins I want to make sure it goes smoothly. Our plan is to use a GC to build the finished shell of the addition then I'll finish the interior plumbing, electrical, drywall and finishes on my own (with the help of some licensed tradesmen friends along the way).

My questions for now go back to deflection - we haven't picked out tile yet but I expressed to the engineer that I want the floor system to be able to support natural stone should we select it. Based on his drawing (also attached) I'm not certain it meets that criteria. I'm running 1.5" x 9.25", 16" on center over a 12' span through deflecto and getting 558. Am I figuring that right? If I use 2" x 10", 16" O.C. over 12' on delfecto it comes to 897, which works, but I don't know the availability of actual 2" x 10" lumber.....I thought lumber nowadays was all the standard dimensional sizes and I don't want to get into custom milling. Also, I don't know what a "strongback" is and what effect that has on the floor system and its deflection.

Based on the engineer's drawing I suppose my questions are:

-Do I need to make sure actual 2" x 10" joists are used for framing if readily available as opposed to 1.5" x 9.25", or do I need to ask the engineer to re-visit this?

-What is the "Strongback" being referenced?

-Is the 3/4" subfloor adequate for a natural tile. I'm sure I'll use a Ditra membrane and probably a in-floor heating element in the traffic areas.

Thanks!
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Unread 04-12-2011, 08:13 AM   #5
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I think your engineer/architect added a beam down the center of the room. If so, and the beam is designed and supported correctly, then your joists will be stiff enough for stone.

When you see lumber specified on a drawing, the dimensions are "nominal." A 2x10 is really 1.5" x 9.25". Milling lumber to your specification is fine if you own a sawmill, but it's cheaper to modify the design if you really need to.

You will need a second layer of subfloor if you want stone. Using Ditra, you can add a layer of 3/8" plywood.
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Unread 04-12-2011, 08:52 AM   #6
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Thanks Bob!
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Unread 11-03-2011, 07:57 AM   #7
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Wow....coming up on two years from the original start to this thread.

Am I in the running for longest project? Granted, actual groundbreaking started last week. I've got a professional crew building the shell of the addition then the interior will be up to me to complete. Foundation blocks were set yesterday, floor system should be completed tomorrow.

Can we change the title to this thread to Pete's master bath addition?

It's on, finally!
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Unread 11-03-2011, 08:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Am I in the running for longest project?
Not yet even a serious competitor, Pete, sorry. Until you're at least well into your forth year of a bathroom remodel, there's no need to even submit your application. And for a room addition, I gotta believe that wouldn't even qualify, but I don't recall the statistics on that.
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Unread 11-03-2011, 08:24 AM   #9
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Four years? Wow...if it takes anywhere near that long to complete it would be from not being worked on at all due to my wife having thrown me out after the first year of being unfinished. Having taken a couple of years to plan and save up for it is one thing, but once the construction "mess" starts my completion window won't be anywhere near that wide. LOL
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Unread 12-02-2011, 09:27 AM   #10
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Just a little update...about a month after breaking ground it's all dried in. The window should come in next week and get installed, and then the brick masons and roofer will do their things shortly after. Sorry about the cell-phone quality photos. I can't wait until the shell is done and I can start the interior.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 09:38 AM   #11
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Also, I'm fortunate to live in a municipality that will allow me, as the homeowner, to pull my own permit to finish the addition. The stipulation is I can't sell the house in two years after completion (don't plan to anyway) and if I do hire anyone to help they must be licensed (that's the plan for some of plumbing and electrical).

I'll have to take plans for plumbing/electric to the permit office. I've been working on the plumbing schematic. I hope to run the drain and vent lines myself and get my plumber to help install the supply lines and valves. I'm going to get him to review my plan as well, but wanted to park it here to get as many eyes on it as possible. If something doesn't look right or looks like it can be done better any feedback of that sort would be appreciated.
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Unread 01-25-2012, 08:45 AM   #12
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Our exterior shell addition is almost complete, so I'm wanting to get ready to tackle the inside demo and framing. And maybe some actual tiling one day.

I need to demo an existing bath consisting of tile over mud/lathe about 4' up the walls and higher in the shower surround. If it's anything like the upstairs bath I demo'd it'll prove to be built like a fortress. That demo was brutal, to the point where my wife wants me to hire someone to do the demolition rather than me doing it. Part of me agrees with her.

I think I've read on here about using a hand-held wet saw to just cut through the tile/mud/lathe and remove the walls in sections. Has anyone done this successfully? Is it easier? Any photos of wall sections successfully cut and removed? What brand/size saw to use?

Progress photo of addition and bath that needs demo'ing:
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Unread 01-25-2012, 11:41 AM   #13
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Hi Pete -
Looks like your addition is coming along nicely. I helped a friend renovate a bath with lots of tile like yours. The house was about 45 years old at the time, so it was all tile set on a mortar bed with metal lathe. I rented a demo hammer...or it might be called a rotary hammer. It made quick work of all of the tile and mortar.

The tool looks like a small jackhammer and comes with a number of bits to use. I think it was maybe $35 for a 24 hour rental. It was VERY dusty work, and the debris is VERY heavy. I'd get a box of contractor garbage bags, and even then, you'll only want to partially fill the bags.

If you have a dumpster out front and a can to transfer the mess, that would be even better.

When I did my master bath last year, the tile on the wall was set similarly in a mortar bed. I chipped away at the corners, and I was actually able to pry an ENTIRE wall of tile off in one set. It all stuck together, and then I broke it into a couple of smaller pieces to hall outside.

Here's a photo of what it looked like:
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So it's possible yours might just come off like that. I used a crow bar after I had a space open where I could work it in on a stud and use that to lever out the wall.

For breaking up the cast iron tub, use a big sledge hammer (wear eye, hand, and ear protection) and beat away. Following the advice of several pros here, I hit it on the skirt first. It takes a few whacks before it starts to crack, and then it just starts to come apart more and more with each crack. And as an extra bonus, if you have a metal recycler near by, you can get $30 - $40 for that cast iron tub if you turn it in! Granted, you have to haul it there. But that will buy a couple of cases of the beverage of your choice.
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Unread 01-25-2012, 12:33 PM   #14
Pete1972
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Thanks Bronson. I've actually been down that road you described before with my upstairs bath using the same methods. Hence my desire to try a different route if possible. In my old bath the lathe did an incredible job of holding the mud together, and the lathe itself was tethered together to from one continuous piece around the bathroom walls and was also secured to the studs in a way that I'd describe as overkill (but it was obviously built to last, which it did). If the handheld wet saw will cut through all of that stuff in 2' x 2' sections I'm thinking that would be a lot easier to pry from the studs.

Here's my prior mess:
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Last edited by Pete1972; 01-25-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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Unread 01-25-2012, 01:57 PM   #15
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You definitely speak from experience! I'm not familiar with a handheld wet saw, other than the very large saws I've seen used to cut relief cuts into concrete drives and patios. I would think you could use an angle grinder and perhaps have a helper spray water on the cut. Since you'd be IN the tub anyway, presumably, most of the water would wash down the wall and into the tub. But it would be taking a lot of mortar and tile debris with it.

Also, some of the water would get behind the wall as well. I imagine you could try the angle grinder without water and see how long the blade lasts. Maybe pick up a cheapo angle grinder from Harbor Freight and give it a try?

Good luck either way...that new addition looks very nice...at least from the outside.
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