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Old 01-19-2008, 10:22 AM   #1
rjodea
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Any electricians hanging out here? (have a wiring ?)

I'm finishing my basement and would like to add a smokey the bed room. All smokeys in my house are wired together with 4-wire starting with the smokey at the bottom of the stairs in the basement. Could I just tap off this one and run 14-3 over to a newly placed smokey in the bedroom I'm building in the basement? Or would this in some way disrupt the rest of them from going off?


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Bob
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Old 01-19-2008, 10:32 AM   #2
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Smokey?

I assume you mean Smoke Detector?
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Old 01-19-2008, 01:53 PM   #3
cniverson
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It won't disrupte anything. Your just adding to the circut. Make sure the breaker is a 15amp. 14 is not rated for a 20 amp breaker.
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Old 01-19-2008, 04:50 PM   #4
ckl111
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No problem adding a new smoke detectors in this way because they do not need to be hooked up in series.

Just make sure the new detector is compatible with the existing detectors and you don't exceed the total number of detectors allowable on one circuit. This information is usually printed on the box. You are looking for a direct wire (120V), interconnectable unit.
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Old 01-19-2008, 05:06 PM   #5
esobocinski
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You say the existing detectors are connected with 4-wire, but you plan to use 14-3 for the extension. Are you counting the ground as one of the four wires (electricians don't), or are you planning not to extend one of the wires to the new detector?
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:20 PM   #6
Westie
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If these are really 4 wire smoke alarms then to maintain full functionality you will have to run all 4 wire to the new one.
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Old 01-19-2008, 08:34 PM   #7
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every smoke alarm I know of is run with 14-3. I am assuming he is counting the ground.
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Old 01-19-2008, 09:12 PM   #8
rjodea
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Sorry guys, I meant 3-wire (14-3).

So as long as I have the same brand and don't exceed the chain limit, I'm good to go - just wire the new one in tied to the first smokey in the chain.

Thanks.
Bob
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:25 AM   #9
jason1083
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yep just tie it in.

btw: if I am reading correctly you are putting a bedroom in the basement. If you are doing that you know you need an egress window right? never seen a fire code that doesn't call for two paths of exit.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:13 PM   #10
rjodea
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Yep, you got it Jason. And yes, there are two egress windows in the future basement bedroom (walk out basement, bedroom is in the rear of the house).

Thanks.
Bob
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:57 AM   #11
rjodea
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Another electrical question...

I'm trying to replace a switch and re-route a circuit.

Here's what I have:
Two switches at the bottom of the basement steps: one is a single pole controlling the basements lights, the other is a 3-way controlling the light in the stairwell (the other 3-way is at the top of the steps). Currently the power is coming in to the first basement light from the panel. There are three cables going to the switch box at the bottom of the steps from the light. One uses the white wire as hot, which goes to the common screw on the 3-way. The other two cables go to the single pole. Another cable is going from the single pole switch to feed a pull chain light in an existing closet.



What I want to do:
- Existing 3-way switch for the stairwell light will remain.
- The existing basement lights will all come down except for the first one where the power is going into, which will be controlled by a new switch for a future work room.
- Replace the single pole with a 3-way which will control the lights in the first finished room.



My questions:
How do I wire this mess?

Thanks.
Bob


I know that's confusing so I'll attach a drawing.
Attached Images
  
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Old 01-22-2008, 01:27 PM   #12
jason1083
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Are you trying put three of the threeway switches on one cct? if so you gotta upgrade to four ways.

there's several methods for wiring a 3 way switch (power can only come into the light or at one of the switches) unfortunately this makes for about eight possibilities. see the link for the wiring diagrams.
http://www.homeimprovementweb.com/in...way-switch.htm

Unfortunately I cant quite wrap my mind around what you got there. (probably seeing it and a half hour with the tester and I could figure it out, but not over the internet). If you dont get anything here, put this up on the electrical forums at Gardenweb theres several master electricians hanging around there.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:51 PM   #13
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Hi Bob.

I finally parsed your description and diagrams and figured out what is probably going on.

Make sure I've got these pieces right: Your end goal is that you want the one remaining light box on a new switch in a new box. You want the stairwell light to work just as it does now, on two existing three-way switches. The stairwell light is not on the diagram but sits behind the three-way switch that is mentioned in text at the bottom of the diagram. You want new basement lights with two three-way switches, one of which will be in the old switch box. The closet light still needs to work as before.

If I've got that all correct, this is what I would do:

1. You have two cables between the light box shown and the switch box shown. Disconnect one cable and remove it from both boxes. You now need only one of those cables.

2. Run a new three-wire cable from the switch box on your diagram to your new basement switch box, and run a two-wire cable from that box to the new basement lights. Also run a two-wire cable from the work room light to the new switch box there.

3. In the work room light box:
a. Connect the power feed black to the black of the remaining cable and the white of the new cable on the new switch.
b. Connect the power feed white to the white of the remaining cable and the white of the light.
c. Connect the black of the new switch cable to the black of the light.

3. In the new basement switch box, connect the blacks and red to your new switch. Wire-nut the whites together.

4. In the old switch box you showed:
a. Connect the black from the remaining cable to the black of the closet cable and to the common (marked) screw of both three-way switches.
b. Connect the blacks and reds of the three-wire cables to their respective switches.
c. Connect all whites together.

If you want to wire the basement lights differently, adapt using one of the diagrams in the link Jason included. It looks like he gave you a pretty good reference site.

And that should do it. I'll attach a diagram in the next reply to make sure this reply doesn't get too big.


The thing that is confusing everyone is that there's at least one error in your existing diagram. Don't worry about it though: It's easier just to disconnect everything in that first light and start over.

( Just in case you were curious what's wrong with the diagram: There's nothing feeding power to the existing single pole switch, so neither the basement lights or the closet light could possibly work as shown. One of the blacks currently shown connected to the light is obviously instead connected to the black from the panel (along with the white to the 3-way). There's also either a second drawing error or someone illegally cross-wired the cables. But, as I said, don't worry about it. )
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:54 PM   #14
esobocinski
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The following PDF has a diagram of my wiring suggestion, based on my assumptions in the previous post.

(Sorry, the inline GIF was just too big and didn't crop well, so ya gotta actually click the icon).
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Bob_Bsmt_Lights.pdf (20.8 KB, 113 views)
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Last edited by esobocinski; 01-24-2008 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:52 PM   #15
rjodea
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Quote:
Just in case you were curious what's wrong with the diagram: There's nothing feeding power to the existing single pole switch, so neither the basement lights or the closet light could possibly work as shown. One of the blacks currently shown connected to the light is obviously instead connected to the black from the panel (along with the white to the 3-way). There's also either a second drawing error or someone illegally cross-wired the cables. But, as I said, don't worry about it.
That's what was baffling me the most - I couldn't see how the other switch was getting power. I had to have followed the wiring wrong, because you're right - it is a physical impossibility for that circuit to have worked. Oh well.

Thank you very much for your efforts in helping me out, taking the time to do the drawing and all. I really appreciate it.

What I wound up doing was very similar to your recommendation, although not as simple (wish I would have waited a day or two and checked this thread). I basically ripped out all wiring from the light to the existing stair switch and started fresh. Rather than taking the power from the light leaving it as is, I redirected the power (via a junction box) to the new switch for the work room and distributed power over to the old box and to the new box for the light switch for the closet, then wired everything else as you described. Maybe that was the long tedious way to do it, but it worked.

Thanks again.
Bob
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