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Unread 11-03-2007, 01:18 PM   #1
Scubadoo
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My New Bath with Walk in Shower

I’m adding a new bathroom on concrete slab starting from a blank slate. I had the slab poured with a recess for the shower pan so I can have a walk in shower with no curb. The entry will be on the cut corner. It's also a Kerdi shower. The shower floor and walls will be tiled as well as the remainder if the bathroom floor. It's a corner shower with a knee wall on one short side. I'm going to do a frameless door/wall so there will be glass on the long wall along with the door.

I've read the Tile Your World book and the Kerdi Shower book. Obviously the shower floor will be pitched from the door to the drain. I was not planning on putting in a hump and don't know if that would be a big deal or not. I don't have much experience with the frameless enclosures but I'm going to have the measurer out before I do anything and will ask. I was not expecting to need a sweep on the bottom of the door but don't know how it's typically done or if the sweep is always needed. If I did put in a hump, I'm not sure how to do it since it would run into the stationary glass enclosure wall. Would I only put the hump in the doorway and then how to handle the transition at the open end? Or make the hump turn 45 degrees and run it down to the far wall such that the stationary glass wall would also be on the hump.

Looks like I have the opposite problem with the toilet flange that a lot of remodelers have. The PVC flange sits right on top of the slab. I've already set the toilet on it to check things out and using a quarter inch test tile found that I need another full quarter inch under the tile in order for the toilet to sit right and not rock on the flange. It’s not a problem for the tile to be set that high in the room. I have not selected the tile yet but I’m assuming the tile will be 1/4in thick. I’m not planning on putting in expensive stone as this is just a spare downstairs bathroom. I’m thinking that a standard thinset application will probably not build up the height enough for where the tile needs to set in order for the toilet to sit properly so I’m not sure the best way to handle it.

Also, the pour on the concrete is not perfect. It’s not pitched but there are valleys that are 1/8in to 1/4in deep, probably a bit to deep and wide to try and put extra thinset down when setting the tiles on order to ensure the top tile surface is flat. I’m thinking I would use a long straight edge and thinset to fill in the valleys first before actually setting the tiles. So bottom line is would a make sense to put a skim coat of thinset on roughly the whole floor in order to fill in the valleys as well as bring the surface up a bit higher for the toilet problem. Or is this really a job for floor leveling compound?

I’m ready to put the mud in the shower pan but need to make sure I know how to handle these other issues first. Not sure how to keep liquid floor leveler out of the shower unless I put the mud in first but higher than the current slab and then pour lever up to it. Also, I’m expecting to use smaller tile (2x2) in the shower floor and larger (13x13) on the outside floor. Since I haven’t selected the tile yet I don’t know if the shower tile thickness might be slightly different from the outside floor and if it is whether this could be a big issue due to not having a curb. I guess as long as I put down the thicker one first I can make adjustments when putting in the other.
I’ll try to post a picture. Looking for advice or comments on how best to finish this out. thanks
-Dave
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File Type: pdf Bathroom.pdf (81.0 KB, 1188 views)

Last edited by Scubadoo; 11-04-2007 at 09:09 AM.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 08:36 AM   #2
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Hmmm, maybe I better pick out the tile first.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 08:52 AM   #3
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Welcome, Dave.

Possible problem getting a response is the brutal read you provided with no paragraphs, there. Break it up a little and more folks are likely to make it all the way through, eh?

I see you have already Kerdied your walls only to the level of the outside slab level. That mean you plan to fill that whole drop to make your shower floor flush with your slab with no step-down into it?

For a glass door to work in most cases you need at least a small curb. Just enough to keep the door or sweep up off the floor outside the shower. Not at all difficult.

The glass man should be able to fit whatever you give him, but it might be easier and look better to extend whatever curb you decide on all the way to the wall and have all the glass start at the same level.

I don't understand about the terlit. If the toilet flange is set on the concrete slab, any tile you install should render the flange too low, not too high. Maybe we need another picher, eh?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 09:06 AM   #4
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On the terlit flange, it was installed after the pour. The bottom of the flange sits on top of the slab as opposed to the top being flush. So the flange is maybe about 3/8in thick sitting on top of the slap. Can't really get a good pic right now without pulling the terlit. While there is a recess inside the terlit base, it's not enough to swallow that flange. In the pic you can see the terlit sitting on temporary tiles. I had to add 1/4 plywood shims under the tiles in order for the terlit to fit properly, the tiles alone weren't enough.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 09:13 AM   #5
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Oh yeah, the shower recess will be mudded up to the main floor level. Definitely want the main floor even with the shower floor entry with no step. Which leads to the questions regarding possible variation between shower floor tile thickness and main floor tiule thickness and whether to compensate when I do the mud. Plus the issue of maybe having to raise the main floor slab 1/8 in or so to deal with the potty flange issue.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 09:24 AM   #6
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OK, If anyone is curious, here is what I started with. Well, not quite, I started with no plumbing and dirt, not to mention some concrete piers holding up the upstairs that had to be demod and replaced with LVL. But those pics are on old fasioned film. Let's just say I was board one day.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 09:30 AM   #7
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Dave,

You can pick up about 3/16" by using "Ditra".
Use Kerdi-Band at the shower floor connection and all Ditra seams.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 09:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
The bottom of the flange sits on top of the slab as opposed to the top being flush. So the flange is maybe about 3/8in thick sitting on top of the slap...................

..............I had to add 1/4 plywood shims under the tiles in order for the terlit to fit properly, the tiles alone weren't enough.
Either something wrong with what you're doing or something wrong with what you're telling us, Dave.

The proper place for that flange to have been set is on top of the finished floor. That's on top of your tiles. The terlit should sit just fine on it with a wax ring seal that way. Every time. Never seen a toilet that wouldn't, but maybe your is "special."

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 09:37 AM   #9
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Smile

OK, well maybe it's just my wax ring. I perfer to use the ones with the built in plastic funnel shutes. Always seemed like belt and suspenders to me. I think that's what's causing the "interference" and the need for the terlit to be a bit higher. I've used them before for existing applications. Perhaps they are only intended to be used when the flange is too low? Maybe I should be sicking with the plain ol' seal? Or at least I can give it a try.
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Unread 11-04-2007, 10:37 PM   #10
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The terlit is a Toto, made in Japan. My first experience with one but it works flawlessy and the flush is very quiet. And it's not even the quiet flush model. But even though its made in Japan its shouldn't be any different than any other uS terlit. It's not like I imported something special. I think that wax seal funnel is the culprit, I got a plain ol wax seal I'm going to try soo as I have a chance.

Still need to figure out best way to fill the valleys in the floor.
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Unread 11-05-2007, 12:01 AM   #11
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Hi Dave,

I recall having the same problem with a toilet a loooooong time ago. If I'm remembering correctly, it goes something like this:

The plastic sleeve inside the wax ring is tapered like a funnel, getting smaller as it goes down. The part of the funnel that exits the underside of the wax ring fits nicely into the opening of a 3" PVC closet flange, but the uppermost part (that's buried in the wax ring) is larger than that same opening. When the gap between closet flange and toilet is really small and you use wax rings w/sleeves, you might have a problem. So much wax is squished-out during installation that the underside of the toilet contacts the plastic funnel driving it down tight into the opening of the closet flange where its taper "bottoms-out" before the toilet is seated to the floor.

Switch to a plain wax ring (with no sleeve).

Plain wax rings actually perform better, as there isn't the constriction of a smaller sleeve to slow the waste down and promote clogs. Also, you avoid some splashing against the sleeve that can manifest itself as a leak if the top of the wax ring isn't sealed 100% to the bottom of the toilet.
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Unread 11-05-2007, 07:29 AM   #12
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Also, I think our friend Terry Love is a big proponent of the Toto brand. Post over there and see do Totos be any different from other terlits in that respect.

I've never heard Terry nor any of the other pros over there indicate that a toilet flange should correctly be set anywhere but on top of the finished flooring, though.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-05-2007, 08:34 PM   #13
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I think you described the problem with the plastic sleeve pretty accurately. I've used them before with no issue but..... the others had the flange installed on the subfloor, then had 1/4 plywood installed over the subfloor and arround the flange then vinyl. So that made the top of the flange about flush with the vinyl surface. That and they were Kohler terlits may have been enough to avoid the issue. I didn't see any similar posts on Terry's forum but I picked up a plain ol wax ring to try tomorrow.

Assuming the flange becomes a non-issue, any comments or advise on how to best handle leveling out the valleys in the slab? Would thinset work, put down first, screed it out and let it setup before tiling?
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Unread 11-05-2007, 08:53 PM   #14
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If they're only 1/4" valleys, I'd use thinset a couple days ahead of time. I drag around a straight-edge and mark the floor with a pencil to look kinna like a topographical map with all the elevation lines. I'll write 1/8" or 3/16" or whatever on each area to help when I'm filling in the valleys.

The thicker the patch, the more I'd wanna give extra time for it to dry out before tile installaion.
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Unread 11-09-2007, 08:22 PM   #15
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Well, replaced the terlit wax ring with one without the plastic insert and everything fits OK now. So tomorrow we're off to the tile store to hopefully pick out an order tile. I'd like to get a warm and fuzzy feeling know what the tile thicknesses will be before mudding the shower. I'm not expecting the shower floor tile thickness to be much different than the rest of the floor but we'll see. I would like to use large (13x13?) tiles for the main floor and 2x2 in the shower floor. It's been suggested that I make a hump at the shower door way and down to the wall, I'm going to need to make the hump using the small tiles, are 2x2 small enough? I could use the same as in the shower floor or perhaps a band of smaller (1x1) that would help define the separation between main floor and shower and make the hump easier to shape on the outside of the shower. I don't want the smaller tiles going to far out of the shower. My first tile project, I don't need to go crazy or make things overly complicated. But this is my training project since its more of a utility bathroom and I definitely don't want a boring tile job.
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