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Unread 08-08-2007, 11:05 AM   #1
c14
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schluter shower tray - compression issues

I installed a new shower with granite on the walls and glass tile on the floor - the glass is 3/4" x 3/4". Within the first month there was compression around the drain, tiles coming up. After 6 months of getting the run around from Schluter, the depression around the drain is about 1/4" deep and about half of the tiles have come up.

Schluter has recommended pulling everything up down to the shower tray, built up the depression with mortar and re-install kerdi and tile. I have no confidence in laying 3/4 inch tile over this shower tray. I'm sure that these problems wouldn't exist with a larger tile.

Does anyone have any experience with laying a 3/4 tile on these shower trays? Am I better off pulling everything out (including the shower tray) and re-installing with a mortar bed? Schluter has been less than helpful - any advice is appreciated.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 12:19 PM   #2
ScottIdaho
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Makes sense to me that a 3/4" tile would not distribute your weight over the foam tray and that it could depress. Consider that in building the shower you would cover the tray with drywall or another board to protect it. I built 2 showers with 3/4" glass mosaics and Kerdi, but I used a mortar bed. I would recommend you simply yank that thing out and install a mortar bed.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 01:50 PM   #3
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Really sorry to see you are having problems. The floor looks great. I would agree that a morter bed is your best bet. Those small tiles just don't distribute the weight and are likely compressing the foam. Think of it as pressing your thumb into the foam as hard as you can. I bet you it will leave an indent.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 03:23 PM   #4
JC Kay
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If you pull the foam tray out and go with a mortar bed and rubber pan, that pan will have to be up the wall a bit behind the cement board or wedi board. Then your talking removing a couple tiles high around the bottom of the wall and re doing the curb. Could you consider filling in the low spots with fill, adding a membrane on top of the old tile, and retiling with 2"x2" tiles? Alot less work!
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Unread 08-08-2007, 03:31 PM   #5
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JCK, It's a Kerdi membrane so it's on the surface..But your right even if the kerdi tray is pulled you'll need to tie it into the kerdi on the wall floor junction.

This is one I had not thought of..Sorry to see all that spendy little (looks like Sicis) glass going to get yanked. I have not read much in Schluter lit. about min. sizing on Kerdi Tray's. They are usually one of the most responsive companies in the industry...I hate to hear your getting "the run around"...As I said they have always been very forthright with me..even if the news was grim.


I would do a mortar pan too...Sorry for your trouble here...It really stinks to deal with these sorts of things.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 03:41 PM   #6
JC Kay
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My employer is really pushing the Kerdi right now and I really don't like the trays at all. If the shower isn't the same size as a tray, you have to mix mud anyway. And 99 out of 100 times, there isn't any communication between us, the builder and the plumber and there is a regular drain already in place that has to be cut out. I would rather pack a floor around a Kerdi drain. Much more durable.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 03:52 PM   #7
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Agreed..But i think they are after a different market niche' with the trays...like fast track hotels ect.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 04:13 PM   #8
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Welcome, c14. Please give us a first name to use.

Sorry you're having this problem. I've never heard nor read in Schluter's literature any size restriction on tiles used over the Kerdi Tray. I've used only mud slope in a Kerdi shower and only even seen the tray at Schluter's training school. Never heard anyone mention your problem.

Like my friend Trask, I'm very concerned about your reports of:
Quote:
Originally Posted by c14
After 6 months of getting the run around from Schluter.....and.....Schluter has been less than helpful
Not the experience we're familiar with at all from them and we'll bring this thread to their attention.

Can you tell us the specific setting and grouting products you used to attach both the Kerdi and the glass tiles to that floor?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 05:06 PM   #9
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Did you thinset the tray to the subfloor?
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Unread 08-08-2007, 08:34 PM   #10
Dave Gobis
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Something don't sound right, I have literally driven a forklift over a tiled tray with 2x2 and it didn't go anywhere.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 09:45 PM   #11
ddmoit
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Here's my amateur guess. The tray was not put down with thinset, but instead was put down with an adhesive that is eating the Styrofoam tray from the inside.

considering the 2 layers of thinset, the Kerdi membrane, and the stiffness of grout between the tiles, I have a hard time believing that the size of the tiles is the issue here.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 09:57 PM   #12
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Mmmmm. I think maybe izza good guess. Makes sense.

We've alerted Herr Schluter to the problem. Maybe he'll have some eye-dees.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 10:31 PM   #13
HS345
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I'm with Dave, something definitely isn't right here.
The area directly around the drain is also covered by the bonding flange, which is made out of hard plastic (abs or pvc), adding even more stiffness.
Although, it does look like some denting is occuring beyond the bonding flange as well.
You have to make sure to pack plenty of thinset under the floor grate, it relys on it for support. You know, like in the Schluter video with the tile that's eggs-aktley the same size as the floor grate?
Are you sure these people aren't giving this floor the 16lb bowling ball 5ft drop test?
Dan's theory sounds very plausible as well.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 11:44 PM   #14
belletile
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c one,
Any chance that floor is heated?
I know from bad experience that foam and heat don't go together.
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Unread 08-08-2007, 11:56 PM   #15
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I'm with Boy Wonder(DAN) ...Adhesive like Const.Adhesive is killing the tray...or eating it...
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