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Old 06-07-2007, 09:07 PM   #1
HS345
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Talking Ding Dong the am-nasty bill is dead.

The amnesty for illegal alien lawbreakers bill fails crucial senate vote.

"The amnesty for illegal alien lawbreakers bill"
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Old 06-07-2007, 09:35 PM   #2
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Fantastic news! I don't care at all about the "Amnesty" claims. I just want to reestablish that waiting in line is a virtue and jumping a fence is a crime, and only one makes for a good neighbor. If it was good enough for my grandfather, to wait his turn at Ellis Island, then it damn well better be good enough for everyone else who wants to be welcomed into this great nation.
This "immigration" proposal is a smoke-and-mirrors job to depress wages, strangle the aneamic labor unions, overwhelm our already intentionally crippled public schools system and cement an economic stratification of the United States. A dumb and desperate mob are easier to *manage* than educated citizens with enough leisure time on their hands to be concerned about policy and principle.
While I don't much care for much of the racist sentiment of the bill's opponents, I find that I'm in agreement with them that this wasn't allowed to be made into law. Reagan's Amnesty program was bad enough and quite possibly led to escallation we're battling now.
But those are just my poorly informed opinions.
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:31 AM   #3
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Hello Shaughn,
This is one of those rare moments where you and I are in almost complete agreement.

The only thing I would not agree with you on would be this:
Quote:
While I don't much care for much of the racist sentiment of the bill's opponents....
I think most opponents of the bill would express your sentiments word for word. It's not about racisism, it's about fairness.

Of course there will always be racists, and they will use any issue to foment their hatred.
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:01 AM   #4
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Greg,
And people here-abouts try to paint me as a "liberal".
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:05 AM   #5
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Check out this video on immigration

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=immigration
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:49 AM   #6
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My parents had to wait on line.

There are a reasons we have limits on immigration. There are also other rules that are being totally ignored especially the one that requires an immigrant to have a sponsor who will be responsible for the immigrant.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:53 PM   #7
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Wow Shaughnn

Had to read it twice just to make sure you were serious


Good job.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:12 AM   #8
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I think Teddy Roosevelt might have said it best.


The year is 1907......but the speaker knew what he was talking about.





Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907


** Calling an illegal alien an, "Undocumented Immigrant" is like **
** calling a drug dealer an, "Unlicensed Pharmacist"! **
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:28 AM   #9
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Stu, Teddy was right on.
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Old 06-09-2007, 09:16 AM   #10
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Great post Stu. I wish Teddy was still around and not just to deal with this one issue.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:45 AM   #11
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Right on Stu,

Another point I wanted to make is this. The government estimates that there are 12 million illegal aliens in this country (probably a low ball number), if the Bush administration and these maniacs in congress manage to pass this, or any other amnesty bill, what do you think that number will swell to when the extended familias of all these illegal aliens come here? If you think our wages are diluted and depressed now, brother, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

We as patriotic Americans CANNOT allow this to happen, let's all excercise our constitutional right to vote and KICK THESE BUMS OUT!!!

Sorry about that, as some of you know, I tend to get a little excited from time to time.

My fellow americans, we are at a critical junction in regards to the future of this great nation. The survival of the United States of America literally hangs in the balance.

We can either be or, we can be
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:04 AM   #12
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Greg,
When I said that I wasn't comfortable with the racist overtones of the debate, it's exactly to this point I was speaking.
Quote:
what do you think that number will swell to when the extended familias of all these illegal aliens come here?
We have immigration scofflaws from every nation in the world here in the United States who are looking to circumvent the process, not just Hispanics? Phil Collins wrote, "It's no fun, being an illeagal alien" from his own experiences trying to navigate the American immigration process. Mick Jagger was nearly deported in the 80's because it his own immigration status. Heck, I even entertained the idea of a "Green Card Marriage" when I was a kid. She was a beautiful au pair from Gotland , Sweden who wanted to remain here instead of returning to fjords and wooly sheep.
Look at the silent tide of immigrants comming from Asia if you want a more current example. It's just easier to scapegoat the Hispanics because their border crossings are more conspicuous. But I want a uniformly enforced immigration policy and so I resist targeting any single demographic. It's a racist tactic, akin to the Willy Horton ads of notoriety, and it's dishonest and manipulative at it's core. Instead, look at the numbers without looking at the faces and you'll have a legitimate and fair policy.

Shaughnn

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Old 06-09-2007, 12:05 PM   #13
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Shaughnn, would it be fair to say that the overwhelming majority of illegals are Hispanic?

Re Asian immigrants, and I'm talking about the construction industry now, how many do you see doing some form of manual labor? The ones I see are in management.

Bush keeps saying they are taking the jobs Americans don't want. You need look no further than your own trade to see that is pure BS.

Face up to it we have limited resources and cannot physically or financially support the hordes invading us. I don't care what race an immigrant belongs to we must enforce our immigration laws.

Shaughnn you do a lot of reading and recommend some great books. May I recommend "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire"?
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:36 PM   #14
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Jim,
Thanks for the recommendation but I already own it.
I don't know what it's like on the East Coast, but here on the West Coast there is a huge pool of Asian immigrants in the construction trades. They stick to commercial work and contain themselves to their own insular communities. That's why I called it a "silent tide". Here in the Pacific Northwest, you can't go into a supplier for ANY trade without the guy next to you being of Ukranian/Slavinc origin. I like to joke that in moving from California to Washington state, I traded all of my Jacovo's and Lalo's for Vladimirs and Alexis. I think that the "Mexican border" has been hugely blown out of proportion because it's an easy sell. Actually discussing the real factors involved in a comprehensive immigration policy can not be done in sound-bites or other propaganda designed to evoke knee-jerk reaction in "the Mob". And sound-bites is all that they want to feed us for fear of their real agenda being exposed.
For a little reading about where I believe *they* want to lead us through their "immigration reform" and corporate consolidation, try starting at the Wikipedia entry for Truck System and follow the bibliography as far as you please.
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:52 PM   #15
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Shaughnn, Ditto what flat said.

Additionally, as a non racist I am not capable of making a racist comment.

Even here in Northeast Ohio, I haven't seen a single non hispanic in the trades, not one.

You are right about it being wrong for any scofflaw to try and circumvent our totally unenforced immigration laws, but you have to face reality, the VAST majority of them are Hispanic.

Just for the record, I am Hispanic myownself.
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