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Unread 01-26-2006, 09:17 AM   #1
Mr. Fixit
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Jim's SoFla Master Bath project

Hurricane Wilma turned our Master bed/bathroom remodel dreams into a necessity. It's a Florida home and therefore built entirely slab-on-grade. The shower is just part of the slab, sunken down about 3-4".

I just started the demo and have a couple questions:

1. I have read all the threads on tiling a pocket door frame, the consensus seems to be: use plywood over the pocket door frame instead of sheetrock, then follow with CBU and tile.

I wanted the tile on this particular wall to be 3 tiles high, about 1/2 way up the wall. Can I put in the plywood/CBU on the bottom half of the frame only or is this asking for trouble?

2. I have torn up a little of the tile on the shower floor and found cement-mush which creates a nice slope and is over the sunken slab. From what I've read this is normal. What I would like to do is tear the rest of it up, let it dry, repair whatever gouges are in it (maintaining slope) and paint it with red guard, same as the walls will be. I'm thinking no more mush this way and the water will hit the drain instead of my foundation.


Jim

Last edited by Mr. Fixit; 01-26-2006 at 09:55 AM.
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Unread 01-26-2006, 09:51 PM   #2
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Hi Jim,
The less joints, the better. To make it as stiff as possible, run a single sheet of plywood to the face of the pocket door. If you need to take out the 3/4" horizontal boards that make up the sides of some pre-built pocket door frames to make room for a single sheet of 3/4" plywood, do it.

Then apply a single sheet of cement board to the plywood. I would specifically use Durock or Wonderboard, as they accept drywall mud very well. Then skim coat the portion above the tile-line with drywall mud. When you finish skimming and sanding a few coats, it will paint up as nice as drywall.

As far as the floor tiles, what is mushy?
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Unread 01-27-2006, 07:24 AM   #3
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What did we ever do without the internet? Thanks for the pocket door idea, I'm sure that will do the trick.

By "mush" I mean water-logged cement. Fingernails will scratch it and a screwdriver will plow through it easily. I expect it to harden up as I remove the tiles and let it dry.

Here's a couple useless pictures:



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Unread 01-28-2006, 12:42 AM   #4
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Is that how Floridians do cee-ment? Ain't s'posta be mushy, even if it's wet. We need more pros that are familiar with this funky cee-ment to chime in on this. Let's see if I can stir someone up.
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Unread 01-28-2006, 12:47 AM   #5
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Twas thinkin the same thing. Once cement dries and/or hardens, that's it. It don't never go back to it's "wet" state. I'm wondering if that isn't deck mud?
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Unread 01-28-2006, 12:51 AM   #6
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Looks to me like a mud bed, Tonto. Florida-style shower pan: pewt some mud kinda slopin' to a plain ol' floor drain. No pan a-tall. Some peoples down there swear that meets code. No, I ain't makin' that up.

I say chip it all out, then start with a proper drain and shower construction. Go to our world-famous Liberry, Jim, and read the Shower Construction section. That will give you a good eye-dee what you ain't got and what you need to build.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-28-2006, 07:20 AM   #7
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Yup,
That looks like a mud pan that's been left soaking. I winder if there are any weepholes around the drain and if they aren't clogged completely. I recommend, as CX has. Tear the whole thing out to the bare slab and rebuild it correctly.
BEst of luck,
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Unread 01-28-2006, 08:22 AM   #8
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Hi Jim.

You can leave the floor down there and install your new pan (along with pre-slope) over the top of it. You will have to excavate only the area around the drain so you can change it to a new clamping model. Better yet, go to the Schluter Kerdi drain and build a Kerdi shower.
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Unread 01-28-2006, 08:55 AM   #9
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Wow, you guys are really putting me to work! Thanks for the input.

Since I have an entire master bedroom/bath to remodel, I would like to cut down on the effort if possible and still do a good job.

So it seems what I have here is a sloped mud bed (although saturated) on top of a sunken slab. What I'd like to do to save time is remove all the tile from the mud bed and paint it with the red guard that will be going on the wonderboard. I think that will force the water to go down the drain instead of sitting on my foundation under the mud. Not so?
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Unread 01-28-2006, 10:39 AM   #10
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Not so sure about that RedGard ideer. I don't see why it won't work but, I don't like the idea of doing something as a "shortcut" like that when the right way is easy. (And cheaper).

That RedGard is $37.00 a GALLON. I mean, heck, gas prices are high but this stuff is ridiculous! And, if you're gonna redo the whole thing, why not put up a poly vapor barrier - will cost you PENNIES in comparison and then put in a standard liner- again - cheaper than a gallon of RedGard.

As a sidenote - I wouldn't do anything with that floor until I got the tiles off and set a fan and a heater in there and got that thing DRY!!! You don't want to be throwing a layer of anything on top of that with all that water in there. That would be a nasty stagnant mess. UGH! I'm thinking it's gonna take at LEAST 3 or 4 days to dry. Maybe even a couple weeks.
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Unread 01-31-2006, 04:01 PM   #11
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Ok, I'm convinced that I need to put in a liner of some kind..I've read through the 'liberry' and my choices seem to me PVC or CPE. I don't want to move the drain so Kerdi is out. (by the way, all the pictures in the "How to Build a Custom Mortar Shower Floor" are missing!)

The process seems to be:

1. Tear out old stuff
2. Mud preslope on the concrete slab
3. Liner
4. More mud
5. cement board with either paper in back or redguard on top.

Ok so far?

My particular setup raises questions though:

1. When the liner goes in, I'm stapling it to furring strips? All 3 walls are cinder block. Also as you can see in the picture above, the slab is sunken - where is the 4th side of the liner going, over the ledge and attached to the floor outside the shower?
2. I want to replace my cheap sliding shower door with the frameless type. The shower is only 3x6, so the spray will probably hit the glass. Will water getting underneath the glass be a problem?

I can't wait to rent the jackhammer
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Unread 02-03-2006, 06:23 PM   #12
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Ok, feeling a little neglected, and have a few more questions.

1. I have read a lot about 'notching the studs' for the liner, and some posts about 'blocking the bases' with 2x10 for the liner to rest on. Since all 3 walls are concrete block, I don't think I need the 2x10 or any stinkin' notches.

2. I get the preslope. How 'sloped' is the final mud bed? The one in the liberry looks completely level, in fact a level was used to screed it.


P.S. All the pictures in the liberry thread "How to Build a Custom Mortar Shower Floor" are still missing!

Thanks for the help!
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Unread 02-03-2006, 08:08 PM   #13
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Well, now you got two posts with the same numbering, so I'm gonna be confused. Poor math skills.

I think this must be the thread you PM'd me about without a link, but now that I've stumbled upon it, I don't recall what you wanted the name changed to.

First, moving the drain is not a different criterion for a traditional shower pan vs. a Kerdi shower. You should still pewt the drain in the center if it's not already there. In either case, you hafta install a new drain.

A. 1. You still need something between the furing strips to support the pan membrane. And you'll still need to notch the furring strips to acommodate the liner, especially at the corners, or fur out the furring strips above the pan.

The fourth side should still go over a low curb unless you plan to re-do the floor outside the shower and can chip out enough to allow you to make a mud bed over the liner far enough out to be effective. Prolly a lot easier to install a small curb to wrap the liner over.

A. 2. Shouldn't be a serious problem.

B. 1. See A. 1.

B. 2. Final mud bed is the same slope as the pre-slope. You make the thickness of the final bed uniform all over and it's just naturally sloped at a quarter-inch per foot.

I can't open them pichers neither. Maybe MB found out we had'em and turned'em off or something. I point it out to our Chief Liberrian.

There are other articles in there that show just how to do the pan, though.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-03-2006, 08:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cx
A. 1. You still need something between the furing strips to support the pan membrane. And you'll still need to notch the furring strips to acommodate the liner, especially at the corners, or fur out the furring strips above the pan.
Ok, so in other words the membrane needs to be attached at more places than my 16" on center furring strips? If I 'furred out the furring strips' I'd have to do that all the way up to the ceiling, making the shower walls uneven with the adjoining sheetrock, right? Me no likie. Anyone got pictures of notched furring strips? They are pretty shallow to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cx
The fourth side should still go over a low curb unless you plan to re-do the floor outside the shower and can chip out enough to allow you to make a mud bed over the liner far enough out to be effective.
Yes, redoing all the tile. Anything between the concrete floor and the liner?

I really appreciate all the help, I have done a lot of home projects but this is unknown territory for me.

Jim
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Unread 02-03-2006, 10:02 PM   #15
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See my post #6 above, Jim. Again, go to our Liberry and scroll down to the Shower Construction section. Read, read, read. Much information in there. Good background information. The last thread in there deals specifically with knotching for the pan liner. In your case, that might just mean chopping off the furring strips at the bottom and adding a horizontal strip of something you can staple your liner to. But that thread will give you the concept.
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