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Unread 10-18-2005, 12:12 PM   #1
v1rtu0s1ty
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rebuilding my 11 yr old shower

Hi guys,

I'm new on this forum. Glad I found this forum. I need some advice regarding putting wall and floor tiles in shower and tub. Last night, I have started removing the glass door. Tonight, I will be removing all the existing all 6" old white tiles. I saw at Home Depot and Lowes the board that they are selling. It's somewhere $8.97. They said, that even if it gets soaked in the water, nothing happens to it. Should I buy that I kind of board for my shower?

Now, for the floors, they told me that I can't use that board. I should get the cement board instead. And also, putting tiles on the shower floor isn't just putting the tiles. There are many steps prior to it such as waterproof membrane or what not. Can someone please share to me a website link that shows very detailed steps with pictures on building the shower floor?

Also, do I need special grout for the shower since it's always going to be wet? I will not buy the premixed grout that was suggested to me by Home Depot. It sucks. It was color white when I applied but then, after 2 or 3 months, it turn lightblue on some part and red. Yucky!!! But my other bathroom, I used non-sanded grout and it's still white without issues.

Please shed some light to me

Thanks,

Neil

EDIT: What is the easiest way to remove the shower pan? Like what I said, I wanted to have a tile floor

Last edited by v1rtu0s1ty; 10-18-2005 at 12:19 PM.
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Unread 10-18-2005, 12:40 PM   #2
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Neil,

Welcome to the site and congratulations on starting your new project!

Start reading in the Liberry, http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...itle&order=asc, and many of your questions will be answered. There are a number of pros and successful DIYers on the site who are glad to help.

The board for the walls, it has a name - what is it that costs $8.97? Many folks use cement board, such as Durock or Wonderboard for shower walls. Others use drywall (also called sheetrock) with a membrane called "Kerdi" over it, for waterproofing. There are several ways to build a shower, and you need to pick one and tell us which way you are going.
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Unread 10-18-2005, 01:10 PM   #3
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Neil, Welcome

Step 1: rip out tile to stud.

Step 2: Rip out floor tile with a grinder that has a 4-inch tile saw blade.
What you do is cut the floor into section like a grid maybe 10 x 10 inches. And get that blade all the way down when you cut. Then get a chisel (the first section is the hardest) and pry out the sections from the floor.

Step 3: have a plumber put a NEW pan liner in and test it for leaks and also have them put your new water vales in as well.

Step 4:Line the shower walls with a plastic sheet as a vapor barrier. Like a black 2-4 mil sheet.

Step 5: put the Durock or Hardiboard on walls, Seal all seams with joint tape and THINSET (Like a versa bond white)

Step 6: Measure from top to bottom, Then Lay out your tiles on the floor and get an idea as to the layout of you tiles that will be going on the shower walls.( you want the best size cut to be at the bottom)

Step 7: Get 2 pieces of wood they are very thin like (1/4 in thick) x 2 x 8
Nail them level to the wall in the shower near the bottom just about the height of that tile cut piece you most likely will have |_| <-- (like this in a way)

Step 8: Start Tiling my friend. Use a thin set to tile NEVER NEVER use anything premixed.

Step 9: Grout and caulk all edges.

Well that’s a lot in a short amount of time If I missed something I know others will come along and add or correct me.

Lexx Tile on…
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Unread 10-18-2005, 01:28 PM   #4
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Step 10: Don't get anymore advice from Home Cheapo. Unless you want to build something that will need to be replaced in 6 months.
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Unread 10-18-2005, 02:23 PM   #5
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Hi. I went to Home Depot today. They're both selling the HardiBacker for $8.99 3'x5'. And the wonderboard is $6.89 for the same dimension. The guy also showed me a book on how to build the shower base. I'm more comfortable now. I found out too from this guy that I cannot use 12"x12" tiles in the flooring due to the slope that I need to create. He told me that I should get 1"x1". Is that guy correct?

On the book, here is what it says.

1. put mortar a bit slope
2. put the pan liner
3. put mortar on top of it again until it levels the drain base kit
4. put mil poly on the walls overlapping pan liner by 2 inches
5. Put backerboard on top of mil poly to create a really waterproof shower.
6. put thinset then start putting tiles
7. grout

That's all the things I recall and I hope it's correct.

Thanks!

EDIT: I didn't see your post guys before I posted this because I was already in post mode earlier before I went to Home Cheapo. I'm so sorry.
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Unread 10-18-2005, 02:30 PM   #6
v1rtu0s1ty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEXX
Neil, Welcome

Step 1: rip out tile to stud.

Step 2: Rip out floor tile with a grinder that has a 4-inch tile saw blade.
What you do is cut the floor into section like a grid maybe 10 x 10 inches. And get that blade all the way down when you cut. Then get a chisel (the first section is the hardest) and pry out the sections from the floor.
Hi Lexx,

Floor is just a 32"x48" shower pan. I'm planning to replace it with real tiles.
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Unread 10-18-2005, 06:19 PM   #7
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Neil,

in regards to the 12 inch tiles on the shower floor, have to agree with the advice you were given, staying away from them would be a good idea. It's not that they can't be used (unfortunately I get to do them all the time) but that they require a very steep learning curve to get them looking good and provide an accurate fall. Heck of a lot easier to use small tiles that conform to the fall to your waste. Looks just as good and provides better grip (a whole lot more grout lines).

Rob.
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Unread 10-18-2005, 09:52 PM   #8
v1rtu0s1ty
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hey guys,

I finished wrestling against the first 7'x4.4' tile shower wall. It was messy and very tiring.

The board that I was removing was color brown and was 1/2 thick. It was similar to a drywall, the only difference is that it's brown. On the other side of this board was color black paper. I noticed though that they didn't use cement to stick the wall tiles. They used something similar to what I used for sticking pavers/together. The color was somewhat olive green.

I'm very glad that I was able to remove first wall. If I didn't see the model shower room in the tile store, I don't think I could have started tonight. LOL

I will remove the next wall tomorrow. It's the wall that has the shower. Rest time for now. !!!
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Unread 10-18-2005, 10:32 PM   #9
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hey guys,

1. When I put the first mortar layer, should I wait for it to dry before I lay the waterproof pan liner?

2. And regarding the mortar, should the mixture be like a peanut butter? That's how my grout is after I have mixed it.

3. Should I still put adhesive against the stud and the cement board? It's because, I will be screwing it.

4. Question about house expansion/shrinkage. Since I'm putting my tiles on a cement board or hardibacker board, is there a chance of crack when it expands or contracts? I notice during summer, the glass attached to the wall gets loosened.

Oh btw, the bathroom I'm building is in the master room, 2nd floor. I don't know if this info will help.

Thanks!
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Unread 10-18-2005, 11:39 PM   #10
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Hi Neil, welcome. You want to let the mud dry before you put the liner in. If you are talking about the mortar for the shower base, you want it to a sand castle like mixture. You should be able to take a hand full and form it into a ball without moisture coming out or falling apart. You don't need any adhesive on the studs. Are you planning on a vapor barrier or redguard? You will always have movement, If properly done there shouldn't be any cracks.
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Unread 10-18-2005, 11:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muskymike
Hi Neil, welcome. You want to let the mud dry before you put the liner in. If you are talking about the mortar for the shower base, you want it to a sand castle like mixture. You should be able to take a hand full and form it into a ball without moisture coming out or falling apart. You don't need any adhesive on the studs. Are you planning on a vapor barrier or redguard? You will always have movement, If properly done there shouldn't be any cracks.
When you say "without moisture coming out", are you saying that water should not come out when you form a ball in your hands? I've done thinset and grouts but I have never done mortars yet that's why am a bit confused. If I'm guessing correctly, there should only be a very small percentage of water when mixed with the mortar. Right?

About the vapor barrier, Yes, I'm planning to put mil poly behind the board. Any reasons why you asked about it?

And which board(hardibacker or cement) is recommended for wall and shower floor? If cement board, is it ok to put two sheets of cement board over each other for the shower floor?

I also would like to get some good tips or advice from you guys on how to carefully remove the tiles beside the tub. I don't want to ruin the tub since it still looks new.

Last edited by v1rtu0s1ty; 10-19-2005 at 12:14 AM.
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Unread 10-19-2005, 12:24 AM   #12
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The mixture of deck mud as we call it should be kinda dry, sometimes refered to as dry pack, you want it so you can shape it with a slope. Just checking on the vb to make sure yoou didn't forget. You are using deck mud for your shower floor, no cbu. Cbu goes on the walls over the poly and thinsetted to the floor outside the shower to set the tile on. For removing the tile try a small prybar and take your time.
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Unread 10-19-2005, 12:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muskymike
The mixture of deck mud as we call it should be kinda dry, sometimes refered to as dry pack, you want it so you can shape it with a slope. Just checking on the vb to make sure yoou didn't forget. You are using deck mud for your shower floor, no cbu. Cbu goes on the walls over the poly and thinsetted to the floor outside the shower to set the tile on. For removing the tile try a small prybar and take your time.
Here is how I am understanding your sentence. Don't put cement board on the floor. Am I correct? If so, then what should I put there?

I didn't understand when you said "thinsetted to the floor outside the shower to set the tile on". Can you explain it more please? I know thinset though.
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Unread 10-19-2005, 12:35 AM   #14
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Are you doing a custom shower?
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Unread 10-19-2005, 05:59 AM   #15
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Neil, a lot of your questions are answered here.

Please read through all of this, including the links to other sites.
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