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Old 02-17-2018, 07:54 AM   #1
provomon
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Shower seat, before or after the pan

After watching several you tube videos I have seen shower seats constructed before the pan is built and some where the seat was constructed after the pan.
There does not appear to be a consensus on which way is best although my logic would say you construct the seat on top of the pan so any leakage remains in the pan.

Is there a best practice here?

Rick
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:32 AM   #2
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Hi Rick, welcome. It all depends on what type of seat and what materials you are using to build your seat. Since you mentioned the pan, I assume you plan to use cement board on the walls. You might confirm that and any other materials you plan to use. It'll help us answer your questions.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:40 AM   #3
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Plan is to use 17 year old pressure treated 2x4 (removed from the preexisting tub surround), covered in cement backer board, tile front and topped with 2cm quartz.

Seat will be diagonal corner with pan over concrete slab.

Hope that helps.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:43 AM   #4
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You can't count on the Quartz to waterproof the seat. And Redgard or other surface membrane won't tie into the pan liner at the floor.

I build my seats out of concrete blocks and mortar. I install the pan liner as usual, then add another piece of liner over the studs in the seat area, overlapping the floor pan liner. I extend the liner higher and wider than the seat will go. Then build the seat on top of the liner with concrete blocks. You can still notch the studs to allow for the liner so it doesn't bulge out the cement board.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:15 PM   #5
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Had you considered a floating corner seat? Check out https://www.innoviscorp.com/better-bench/

That can really help if the shower is smaller since you can face the bench and your feet will be able to fit underneath.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:23 PM   #6
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Keep in mind that you do not want water getting into or under a enclosed seat or into a bench material. Odor and mold issues.
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:33 AM   #7
provomon
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Draine Heigth

Over a concrete slab, and after the preslope is installed, how high should the top of the drain be set above the preslope. In other words, on a concrete slab, how thick should the concrete be at the drain?
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:46 AM   #8
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Draine Heigth

Probably need more info.

How big is the shower area?
Is the bottom of the shower pan area the same depth as the concrete floor of the house?
How thick is the concrete of the house floor.
Keep in mind you have to allow for the thickness of the tile and underlayment.
Any info on how tall the curb will be ? Or needs to be ? If there is a curb ?
Usually the top of the drain is lower than the floor of the house.
Are you trying for 1/4 of slope per foot in the shower ?

Not trying to make it complicated but some of the questions can easily affect the answer.
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:55 PM   #9
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Robert,

The shower will be about 44 (Wide) x 70 (Long)
The drain is about 12 inches from one of the widths and center between the lengths. (can not be moved to the middle)
The slab foundation is 4 inches thick and the shower will be over 4 inches of 20 year old concrete. There are no cracks in the concrete.
Curb will be approximately 5 - 6 inches high concrete.
As installed by the plumber, the drain is about 1/4 inch higher than the concrete slab surface before the preslope. It was installed as low as it could go.
The preslope and the pan will be constructed with a minimum of 1/4 slope.

The idea is to have the thickness of the preslope to be 1/4 inch at the outer edge of the drain ring to get rid of the 1/4 inch the outer ring is above the floor. After the preslope is installed the top of the drain will be level with the concrete preslope at the drain.

Again, what is the minimum distance between the top of the drain and the surface of the preslope at the drain? Or because shower sits on four inches of concrete, how thick does the concrete for the pan need to be at the drain.

Hope this helps and thank you for your response.

Rick
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:18 PM   #10
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A bonded mudbed over a slab can get down to that 1/4"...if it were a wooden subfloor, it would have to be lots thicker. After the liner is installed, you should plan about 1-1/4" thickness across the entire liner, which would follow the slope. Since that layer isn't bonded, it needs to be thicker to be able to stay intact. You can take a little of your mud mix and make it somewhat richer right underneath the bottom of the clamping drain, but too much water or too much concrete can cause it to shrink when it cures, which is not good.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:46 AM   #11
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Thank you for a very helpful response.

Rick
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Old 03-03-2018, 10:51 AM   #12
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Using tapered wood for shower pan

I would be interested to know if anyone has tried this before and their experience, also other comments. Searched the Forum but had no luck finding a similar thread.

I have constructed a couple brick patios over the years. To get the bed sand the proper thickness to set the pavers, pipes are laid parallel to each other and sand is screed to the thickness of the pipes. The pipes are removed and sand is then used to fill the channel where the pipes were.

Why can't a similar process be used for the pre slope and the shower pan. Poplar 1 x 4 (or other) can be tapered on a table saw with a jig to the correct slope and laid on the floor. The concrete is laid in, packed and screed to the level of the boards and the boards are then removed. Concrete is used to fill the channels where the wood was. This is done before the concrete sets.

Only issue I can think of is how the concrete will react when the wood is pulled up, that is, the concrete adhering to the wood and being pulled up also. A putty knife could be used to separate the wood from the mud, though.

Any thoughts ??
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:12 AM   #13
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Rick, I've merged your three threads for your shower into this one. Please keep all questions related to this project on this thread so that questions and answers aren't duplicated, and the history of the thread is in one place.

What you've proposed with the tapered sticks has been done to some degree with plastic sticks, I think it's called the Goof Proof Quick Pitch or something like that. The sticks are cut to length to accommodate the shower size, but the problem is that if the shower isn't perfectly square, and the drain isn't perfectly centered, then the perimeter height of the mud floor isn't level.

You may or may not be able to overcome that problem with wooden sticks, I don't know. What I think you'll find is that when you remove those sticks, your firmly packed-in mud is gonna go crazy on you, as opposed to a clean removal that I think you're hoping for.

If you'll set your perimeter screed with a level all the way around the shower and about 3-4" out from the wall, then fill in that area between the drain and that screed, you should be able to use a straight edge to cut the mud down with little effort. I like to build the mud up well above the needed height, pack it down well, then start cutting it. If you don't build it up enough to begin with, you'll have a tougher time adding more after you've cut it.

If you have a mind to, go ahead and try the sticks and let us know how it goes. Good luck!
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Poplar 1 x 4 (or other) can be tapered on a table saw with a jig to the correct slope and laid on the floor.
If you're going to try this, my suggestion is to also bevel the sides a couple degrees, with the thinner edge on the bottom. That way when you lift the guide stick out it will be less likely to drag against the packed mud on either side.

Getting a level perimeter with this method will be a bit of trouble. In the best case, you'll need to make two different types of guide sticks (square shower, centered drain, level perimeter, one type for the corner and one type for the center of each side). Worst case each guide stick will be need to be different.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:35 PM   #15
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Wayne,

Very good idea with respect beveling the guides. Using tapered wood sticks would be in lieu of using the plastic store bought systems that are out there.

Looking for people who may have tried this and how it went.

Rick
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