Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-31-2017, 06:16 PM   #1
klepp0906
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
nightmare with cutback/mastic - advice?

Sigh. Ive been reading on this for days with no clear decisive solution.

Wife and I refinanced and had pre budgeted. We had no plans to do the basement flooring until later so as a temporary measure I bought some of the epoxy coating stuff. I set it aside and carried on with the drywall work.

Time has come to clean up and paint the floor and i start digging into research. Degreasing, etching etc. Course I hit a brick wall. This black stuff that is all over my basement, wall to wall.

The house was built in the 50s and the tile has been up for nearly 10 years.

Apparently nothing will stick to this stuff. Now the epoxy kit says if its being used indoors, i dont have to etch (which is great as using a hose near my brand new drywall makes me cringe). Still etching wouldnt work with the cutback, and i doubt the epoxy would stick very well to it either (so im hearing?).

Now normally this epoxy coating is meant for garages and to hold hard enough to handle hot tires and thousands of pounds of vehicle. I assume thast why they say no need to etch if its being used indoors - those kinds of forces will never be acting on it.

That being said - cutback/mastic may be the exception.

Without being long winded, what im getting at is A) can i expect that rolling this epoxy over the cutback wont even last a year? (this is technically temporary) B) if the former is not an option, what on gods green earth can I do to get this stuff up?

Keep in mind 1) this is in a brand newly finished basement 2) its the dead of winter 3) the only floor drains i have access to are in the smaller rooms on either end, the giant main room has none.

I have a newborn and budget is all but gone so safe/cheap are awesome too if such an option exists.

Ive read on everything from grinders, to shotblasters, to citric acid based solvents, to encapsulating...

What to do here guys?


I apologize for my first post being such a doozy but I was pointed here via a blog i came across and Im at a loss.

(fwiw its ~500 sq ft)
__________________
Kevin
klepp0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-31-2017, 06:58 PM   #2
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 29,722
Hi Kevin, welcome. If the cutback has been on the slab since the 50's, it probably has asbestos in it so you will have to be careful with that. Without asbestos, a grinder and cup wheel would be my plan of attack. They do make a vacuum shrout for them that helps with the dust. The cup wheel will get it up but my concern would be the asbestos.

That said, if you decide to tile the floor, they do make thinsets that claim to stick to cutback. But, I like to remove it when possible.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2017, 07:10 PM   #3
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 9,551
I'd have to check with the manufacturer of that product and see what they'll allow first. They may have some ideas that none of us would think of.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 08:00 AM   #4
klepp0906
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
It will be tiled eventually, but i honestly cant begin to guess at how far in the future. We bought the house as a forclosure for an amazing price (which allowed the refinance) but we had to dump every penny of it into the home, and plenty more by the time we're done).

If we could afford it i would simply try some el cheapo linoleum for now even. Unfortunately it just wasnt budgeted for beyond the epoxy coating and that was before slowing down and realizing the floor had old adhesive on it.

The coating is made by rustoleum who i believe i read somewhere that it "has to come up" but I will double check with them. I hadnt considered contacting them directly regarding it.

Im almost inclined to just clean it and go over it for now so i can move on but if its going to come up obnoxiously fast even with just foot traffic... im not so sure.

thanks for the welcome guys. Gonna get this thing figured out one way or another.

Did some MORE digging last night and apparently some of the solvents do work but the volume you need ends up costing a few pennies and its extremely labor intensive. Not to mention needing a case+ of paper towel from what i gather.

Its just like the in slab ductwork (of which 1 is collapsed in my case) they did stuff back then with no regard to the future I guess.

We were putting people on the moon but engineering home products and procedures was still some years out :P
__________________
Kevin
klepp0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 08:21 AM   #5
rmckee84
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 2,571
Remember if you plan to tile in the future the epoxy finish will have to be removed.
__________________
Jack of most trades, master of none...
Ryan McKee
McKee Construction & Custom Tile
rmckee84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 08:45 AM   #6
klepp0906
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
ah? i was under the impression it would just have to be scarred up. Ugh this is becoming a disaster.

Should have dealt with the floor before all the new framing and drywall work. During the summer too.

So another thought, peel and sticks? Nowadays they seem to be a better quality aesthetically and can apparently even be grouted. I could return the floor coating and purchase those instead for the 2 small areas that are priority.

Will the adhesive on the back of those stick to cutback after a thorough degreasing of the basement floor?
__________________
Kevin
klepp0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 08:56 AM   #7
klepp0906
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
or what about the floating plank stuff? That seems ideal except the floor has a slope towards the drain(s). Im unsure if that would create an issue? This is my wifes preference (and mine as prep work beyond this point would be minimal and im truly out energy for the floor lol).
__________________
Kevin
klepp0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 09:18 AM   #8
Gozo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 209
I did my garage floor in epoxy a few years back and if you plan to later put down tile, you’ll need to remove the epoxy. It’s great on the garage floor as pretty much nothing sticks to it. I’ve had paint, glue, cement, and other stuff left on it over the years and every spring when I clean it out, mostly everything scrapes off without too much effort. I’d expect thinset not to bond too great to it as well.
Acid etching does little to clear the surface of residue. If the floor is not as flat as you’d like you may need to grind with something like an Edco (or hire someone to do it). If it’s flat enough for tile down the road, try a diamabrush. You can get a small one to fit an angle grinder to see how it does. You could do the whole floor with it but it’s backbreaking (and dusty). I rented a floor polisher with the diamabrush head from HD and did the prep work on 500 sqft concrete pad in an afternoon. They also had a coating removal tool for the same machine, but I’ve not had any experience with it. Try getting some feedback on what you want to do at the garagejournal.com floor forums.
__________________
Jeff

Last edited by cx; 01-01-2018 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Light up link
Gozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 09:36 AM   #9
workhurts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 254
In a similar position wrt basement floor but am shying away from epoxy because I don't know what I'd want to put down in the future and worry about adhesion. Was thinking more of a surface sealant that would be easier to sand off in the future.

As good as this forum is, if you have epoxy questions there are a couple of places elsewhere that are a wealth of knowledge and even calling one of the smaller distributors/manufacturers would probably get a few of your questions answered.

Is your rustoleum a 1 part or a 2 part epoxy. The 1 part comes off if you look at it funny.
__________________
Ali
workhurts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 10:09 AM   #10
klepp0906
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
hi again guys. Looks like plank is out as the slope is too great around drains. Same with subfloor which i just considered on a whim as a solution to the former but still requires leveling work.

looked at skimcoating over the mastic (which was suggested elsewhere) but the volume needed to do my basement would be lots of hundreds of dollars.

Returning to the epoxy idea. I hate going back and forth in the thread here but im kind of thinking outloud.

The epoxy IS a 2 part system and now that im looking at the issues my basement will present based on slope and adhesive.. it might become more on the permanent side.

That being said, its sounding like to me - my cheapest and easiest option is going to be using some solvent and a lotta paper towel to get up the cutback?

Anyone out there that has successfully removed this stuff and epoxy coated afterwards? with or without etching?

Im in a conundrum, finances are all but nonexistent at this point.. Time is at a premium... this floor is holding up finishing the entire rest of the basement (sooooo close!) and im caught between wanting to do it right, and wanting to do it fast/cheap. (trying to strike a reasonable balance)

Sorry for carrying on. I do truly appreciate the experienced feedback cause im geniunely at a loss.
__________________
Kevin
klepp0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 10:19 AM   #11
rmckee84
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 2,571
So heres the deal with the solvents, once you use them you will have the oily residue soak into the slab. So, in turn you have another situation to address. You'll definitely need to contact the manufacturer of your epoxy and talk this through with them. Leaving the solvents and residue on the slab with most likely cause the epoxy to fail. I am not an epoxy installer, but if I were you I would be contacting the manufacturer to talk through step by step your plan.
__________________
Jack of most trades, master of none...
Ryan McKee
McKee Construction & Custom Tile
rmckee84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 11:37 AM   #12
RichVT
Vermont Remodeling Contractor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Northern Vermont
Posts: 173
Some pictures would be helpful.

I would vote for the floating vinyl planks. They will eventually conform to the slope around the drains (along with every other imperfection in your floor). No dust, no fumes and about $2/ sq. ft.
__________________
Rich
RichVT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 11:49 AM   #13
klepp0906
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
i just went to lowes and spoke with the flooring guy there. He suggested using ceramic. He said the stuff with the "green lid" (i forget the name) will adhere over the cutback (he was unfamilair with that term so i said "mastic" which he was familair with).

Ive never done ceramic but it seems straightforward enough apart from doing up-to the drain which concerns me.

So thats 1 option.

The other option is the floating plank still. Ironically I just returned the epoxy coating with the intention of going either ceramic or floating. Your comment regarding the solvent leaving a residue to contend with just confirms my decision. It seemed the easiest route at the time, and would have been - but now probably not.

So we are back at ceramic or floating. The latter is more appealing from a monetary and labor standpoint, even aestethic in our specific case i think. However I am not confident regarding its use with the floor drain(s).

the one in the utility room isnt the "sharpest" drop off but the one in the bathroom definately is.

Has anyone used it on sloped floors? will it really conform/work? I felt some of the stuff there and it seemed nearly completely rigid (though it was just in passing and may have grabbed some of the more solid/real wood stuff).

Thanks for continuing to deal with me guys. This is literally my last stop on figuring this out. As i mentinoed before its holdiong up the entire basement. If money wasnt an option id have just paid someone but alas it is.

Let me go get you guys some pictures. especially of the drains.
__________________
Kevin
klepp0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 12:07 PM   #14
rmckee84
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 2,571
Floating is probably your best bet, its quick, forgiving, and fairly durable. It all depends on the style though. The hard plastic feeling stuff will not conform to the pitch around the drain. A luxury vinyl would probably suit you better. Depending on the severity of the slope some feathering with a patching compound may be necessary.

Mastic is a bad choice. Not to sound like an ass but the only questions that should be asked at a big box store is where something is located. They are stuck in departments without any real knowledge of proper practices.

If you were to install tile there are a few products that can be used over cutback but they will add cost. One would be a primer like mapei eco prime. Some mortars can be used over cutback, I think laticrete 254 is one but I'd have to double check that.
__________________
Jack of most trades, master of none...
Ryan McKee
McKee Construction & Custom Tile
rmckee84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 12:10 PM   #15
klepp0906
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
images are too big to attach here so linking to imgur.

pretty hard to show anything relevant due to the drywall mess thats created covering everything.

most importantly showing is the 2 drains, one in the laundry room (the one with the very shallow pitch) and the one in the bathroom (larger more aggressive slope). The rest of the basement is sloped but shallowly and its flat. Really only concerned with that type of flooring around the drains and anything is an improvement over whats there now which is why the epoxy coating was my go to.

I just wanted to make that entire 1/3rd of our house (its a tri level so only half underground basement) useable. At the moment if you go down there stuff gets tracked all over.

Name:  1.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  58.7 KB

Name:  2.jpg
Views: 54
Size:  65.4 KB

Name:  3.jpg
Views: 54
Size:  28.7 KB

Name:  4.jpg
Views: 54
Size:  76.3 KB

Name:  5.jpg
Views: 54
Size:  30.5 KB

let me know what ya's think. If the floating vinyl stuff really can work it'll be a relief. getting desperate for some kind of solution :P
__________________
Kevin

Last edited by jgleason; 01-06-2018 at 08:46 AM.
klepp0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advice on cutback djaco Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 04-29-2015 06:55 PM
Tiling over black cutback mastic Rick Conner Tile Forum/Advice Board 14 04-25-2012 08:08 PM
Mastic cutback adhesive / latex paint / vinyl tiles house_trained Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 10-07-2011 11:41 AM
Black Cutback Mastic ppmnc Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 05-25-2010 05:47 PM
A solution for cutback black mastic on a large floor area…will it work? swingthought Tile Forum/Advice Board 22 01-03-2010 10:33 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:32 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC