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Old 11-14-2017, 06:57 AM   #31
HS345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen
What should I be requiring of the contractor? What would be reasonable--not overbearing--of me to expect?
Well, unless you have some sort of agreement with the contractor to accept sub par tile work in exchange for deep discounts, you should expect a reasonably professional tile installation. So far from what I can glean from your pics, you are NOT getting that. Why is the rush being put on from the contractor? Do you have some sort of deadline for him to meet? Quality tile work can't overly be rushed, it is a step by step process. This business of trying to set the mosaics and grout them same day is never a good idea.

What would be reasonable of you to require, is for the contractor to make it right. Even if that involves tearing it all out and starting over, at his expense. He may beg to differ. But seriously, the tile installer appears to be, either of limited experience, or lacks the mechanical ability to produce a quality installation.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:19 AM   #32
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I am figering that the contractor is charging you for a quality job and that the work would be done accordng to industry and manuf. specifications. I can not see what is behind the tile but what I can see is poor quality. Only you can decide what is acceptable and what you want redone .And maybe with some monetary ajustment somethings that are inbetween that you can live with.

I feel for your pain. Hold the contractor responsible and be tough. You should get what you are paying for,a quality tile job.

Please keep in mind that tearing out tile,trim,etc. can cause damage to the waterproof membrane and repairing that is almost impossible because it must be overlapped.
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Old 11-18-2017, 02:10 AM   #33
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Any problems lately with running out of hot water? Or have you noticed that your cold water is warm?

Travis, that is a very good idea!
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:27 AM   #34
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Update: It gets worse and worse

In the past two weeks, the job has gotten worse and worse, and we still do not have a completion date in sight. After I posted about the poor grout job, I met with the project manager who said the grout pinholes were likely because the tile helper "whipped" the grout too much, that it happens a lot, and that they could fix it easily by sanding the surface of the grout with a sanding block and reapplying a surface coating of grout over the old.

*blink*

We disagreed about how old grout must be removed to a significant depth. He didn't believe me, so he called his Mapei rep, who agreed with me. I also wanted grout removed at change of plane and the corners caulked, and he insisted they always grout corners. I persisted, and the tiler showed me the (color-matched, sanded) caulk he should be using, and the project manager called it "modified grout" to save face. I had to explain three times on separate occasions that caulk can be indented by a fingernail, and the hard substance at change of plane was grout, not caulk (that was mysteriously applied at the same time as the rest of the grout). Even the tiler was embarrassed for the project manager. These are examples of why my trust in the project manager's knowledge and the tiler's abilities are zero.

I got the project manager to agree to re-grouting. I specifically asked twice that I be allowed to see that grout joints were cleaned out before grouting, but they did a quick re-grout before I had a chance to look. They regrouted in the wrong color and without cleaning out the grout joints, so you could flake off the surface coating of new grout. They also never cleaned thinset out of the grout joints, so you could see grey under the grout in some places. The wrong color was so obvious that the project manager came to the conclusion they must have used the grout bag for the other bathroom on accident. They tore out the mosaic and grouted a THIRD time, and the color was wrong AGAIN. But this time, they tried to convince me the color was not wrong. Also, when they put in the new mosaic, the tiler got lazy and stuck the bottom row of mosaic tile in with extra wide upper and lower grout joints instead of cutting an extra half row of tiles to fit the space exactly. We are still awaiting tear-out of that bottom part of the mosaic. We have not reached an agreement about the two different grout colors, because it turns out the repair grout came from a correctly labeled bag, but a different bag that the initial grouting (still, the different in color was so obvious, the project manager jumped to the conclusion it was a switched bag). I suspect I will lose on this point and will end up applying a grout colorant myself after the job is done. Is there any way for me to win that fight?

At the moment, they are bringing on a second guy to do grout removal over the weekend, and they will not be re-grouting until I approve the removal.

Oh, and I noticed today that a significant portion of the glass mosaic tiles are all scratched up. The tiler used Mapei Ultracolor FA, when he should have used an unsanded grout (am I right?). The latest response from the project manager is that they will try to "buff out" the scratches. *eyeroll*

In the meantime, in the other bathroom, the tiler tried to convince me it was ok to tile over wet membrane without letting the thinset dry 24 hours. I halted the job on that, and the company owner was not happy I called a halt.
Also, the tiler forgot to finish tiling at the toe kick area (because he ran out of time for final cuts?), so that added two days for tile and grouting of that little floor area. Then the shampoo recess had a ledge with a drop of about 3/4" over 5". Guys, I couldn't get a shampoo bottle to not fall over. Project manager immediately agreed to tear out the bottom of the shampoo recess; in the process of the tear-out, glass tiles were shattered. AND, I noticed nearly all the glass mosaic tiles in that bathroom are scratched up, as well. They also managed to scratch up some of my Jolly trim; it looks like razor blade scratches from--whaddya know--cleaning dried thinset out of grout lines. *facepalm*

What would you do? I can keep toeing the line, refusing to budge while they keep attempting to fix. Every fix attempt means they are losing more money and digging their hole deeper. At some point, giving up is the better financial option for them. Should I ask them to settle up on work completed (plumbing, tub install, countertops) and refuse to pay for the tile so I can hire a real tile guy to start over?

And to think I saw the train wreck coming when the tiler wanted to furr a wall with cardboard shims....
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:49 AM   #35
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Wrong color grout

The shampoo recess was grouted in a different color a few days after the band and field.
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:55 AM   #36
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Scratched tile

Scratched tile in the other bathroom. It's like this all the way around the room.
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Old 11-25-2017, 04:02 AM   #37
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Sloppy mosaic redo

Mosaic has to be installed a third time at the sloppy bottom row. Also notice the shattered glass tile on the floor of the recess at the bottom right of the photo.
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:44 AM   #38
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I suspect your idea of paying for all but the tile work is a good idea. Seems you need a new experienced tile guy. Have the new tiler price in writing for tear-out and redo. Deduct it out of the overall job you have going.
Existing contractor will probably want to deduct whatever he bid on the job, assuming the price is broken out in the overall bid.
Having the new tilers price at least gives you something to work with.
Try to settle up as best you can.

I suspect that the point is being reached where neither side is going to be happy no matter what is done.

Lots of good advice from others listed above.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:59 AM   #39
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Keep up the pressure !

In Texas, (and I suspect most places) you MUST give the contractor the chance to fix all mistakes. Only if he elects to not make repairs or cannot make repairs can you hire someone else and not pay those guys.

My suggestion would be to convince the person you are paying to hire qualified help (aka someone who knows their trade) You can find a pro through the NTCA or here on the forum.

If you add your location to your User CP, we may be able to recommend someone we know.
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:10 PM   #40
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Good Advice

Robert and Paul, thank you for the good advice. Paul, that is a good idea I hadn't though of--albeit a tedious one--to play matchmaker and get my contractor a tiler I can trust.

We are in Las Vegas, NV.

Lesson learned to always GC my own projects (that is, if I can't do it myself). Our kids have been through significant trauma lately and I've had lots of needs to meet, so my back was against the wall, and I thought hiring a GC for our projects would keep me from being spread too thin. Now I see this route is so much more stressful because I am doing the same amount of work but have no control over the crews. Live and learn.
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:50 PM   #41
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Karen,

To help find a JBF contractor, make a new thread in the Pro's hangout with a title such as, "Pro needed in Las Vegas" and a link back to this thread.
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:41 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kktalker View Post
Our kids have been through significant trauma lately
I hate hearing about kids that suffer due to poor tile work. I am 8 hours away. Wish that i was closer so that i could possibly help fix the tile problem


Travis, that is a very good idea!
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:14 AM   #43
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I just read in this thread that changes of planes need caulk vs. grout. My tile setter grouted mine. Can I caulk-over the grout? If I wait and watch for cracks to develop, the joint will have hard water deposits and may not take the caulk very well.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:20 AM   #44
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No Frank, the purpose of the caulking is to allow for slight movement within the install. If grout is already in place running caulk over it will not help you. Either leave it as is and address it if it cracks, or remove the grout in those areas now and fill those areas with 100% silicone
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:35 AM   #45
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I hope you're not making light of the OP's situation by posting that you hate it when kids suffer due to poor tile work. That's at the worst extremely insensitive to try and make a joke at her expense. Take a look at the OP's location and ask yourself what kind of trauma her children could have experienced recently.

Think before you post.
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