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Old 10-05-2017, 03:19 PM   #16
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I've found many mudguards to be larger than they need to be and just leave them off. You only need a hole big enough to remove valve body should it need servicing.

I'm not clear on where you're intending to use K-Fix. Looking at prior photos it appears you've cut holes to fit mudguards in K-Board already.

Not being there to see it this is some conjecture on my part, but why not make valve hole in tile smaller and pitch the mudguard? If you're really concerned about the valve trim seal not working as intended, you can fill the space between tile hole and valve with silicone caulk prior to installing.

I really wouldn't suggest using K-Fix as caulk, too runny and not much body like silicone. I'd consider K-Fix more of an adhesive.
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:54 PM   #17
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Here's a picture with the mudguard off and the mounting plate that gets screwed onto it. I can't really go that much smaller with the hole because of the screws for the bracket. But I do think it's safe to cover the valve with painters tape so I can slide the tiles into the thinset.

I was thinking of putting kerdi-fix onto the kerdi-board around the valve, but yeah I was concerned it's too thin to really hold on. Silicone is probably a better bet there.

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Old 11-03-2017, 05:28 AM   #18
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Bumps in Kerdi!?!?

So thanks for the advice on the mudguards. I took them off, cut holes in the tile slightly smaller than the mudguards are, and it went up fine. All the tile is finished except for right above the shower pan.

The kerdi shower tray and kerdi liner are in and currently Iím 12 hours into the leak test. No drop in water level so far. Iíve successfully built a wading pool....

The problem I ran into is although I thought I had gotten the kerdi liner on the bottom of the pan nice and flat, after it cured I noticed I had left a few bumps of thinset (no give so I believe they are thinset and not air bubbles) in a couple of places. I worked pretty hard to get the air bubbles out, but I think I should have used my hands more to check for complete evenness.

I know I can make up for a bit of unevenness with the thinset while putting down the tile, but with 2Ē hex mosaic, Iím a bit concerned one might still telegraph through. After the leak test is finished, would taking a bit of versabond and skim coating the base in a few places to give a flatter surface make sense? Then put down the mosaic after itís cured.

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Old 11-05-2017, 10:07 AM   #19
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So no-one would take me up on "how do I fix this?"

So in case it helps anyone who reads this, I spent more time looking at the problem to understand how it happened and come up with a solution.

The shower pan is 5'6"x48" and the entrance is on the 48" side. So I had to be kneeling on the liner to smooth out the far side. While I spent a long time being paranoid about the seams at the edge and drain, and pushing air bubbles out, toward the end I was kneeling on the near side of the drain, and when I got out of the shower pan I should have paid more attention to where my feet were. I didn't (I was too busy checking the seams at the edges), and I think that's why there were bumps there. Lesson....

Holding a straight edge across the bumps, the worst gap I got under the straight edge was 1/8". What I wound up doing was spreading thinset there, then putting another piece of kerdi on top of it. Then I set the mosaic like normal. I was being careful to press evenly with my float to leave a smooth surface.

I haven't walked on it yet, but I think what I wound up with is a bit less of a slope above where the bump was, and then a bit more approaching the drain. So it's not the perfectly even slope it should have been, but I don't think there's a noticeable bump, either. I wasn't trying particularly to seal the new kerdi with a thin edge, so I sort of assume if water can seep under the new kerdi it can also seep out the lower side. Regardless, it's all inside the waterproof envelope.

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Old 11-05-2017, 11:16 AM   #20
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To my thinking that's just one more reason not to use those foam shower trays. A mud bed is so much more solid in that application.

Not to mention saving a hundred dollars or so and having the shower floor fit the shower footprint and drain location exactly.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 11-05-2017, 06:33 PM   #21
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That's an interesting point. I decided a long time ago that this big of a shower pan might be too hard to do a mud bed as my first shower pan. So I went with the pre-fab foam pan.

But if I was doing kerdi over a mud bed and had this problem, I probably would have cut out the bad sections, scraped off the thinset, and just re-done the kerdi with a couple extra seams. If it was a traditional mudbed the problem doesn't apply. But with a foam pan I assume removing the thinset would have destroyed the foam and resulted in me needing to essentially do a partial mudbed (best case), so I never even considered that option.

In this particular case the drain location is dictated by the I-Joist underneath, so the location would have been the same regardless. There's a very slight dip because I cut 3" off the end of the shower pan, but I think it's less than 1/8".

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Old 11-20-2017, 10:08 PM   #22
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"Addressing" a tented subfloor

Very slowly making progress. I actually finished up the last of the tile in the shower tonight---just the pebble accent strips left. So I'm starting to think about the floor a bit more now.

I was looking at the floor a bit harder and realized that the subfloor (3/4" T&G plywood) seam right under the kickplate of the vanity is too close and has tented a bit. I might guess from moisture but don't really know. Schluter says I should "address" the issue. How exactly should I address it? I can just sand it down to make it level, but obviously there's a missing expansion joint there. I could circular saw to create a joint, but then I lose the T&G interlock. I could replace the section of subfloor, though I don't think I'll ever really get the new pieces perfectly locked into the old, either.

What's the best way to "address" the situation? Floor will be ditra heat membrane with porcelain tile on top.

Adding some pictures of current status---thanks for all the advice so far.

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Old 11-20-2017, 11:01 PM   #23
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To solve the problem we would want to know the cause. Has it dried? What caused the tenting?
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:25 AM   #24
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Unfortunately I don't think I can be sure what caused it. There's no current source of moisture and it's not currently wet. There's some chance I could have gotten it wet as I've been using a tile saw nearby and I know some water got out of the plastic a couple of times, but I don't think that was it---there's a score from removing the 1/4" plywood under the linoleum that is deeper where it is tented a bit, so I think it was there all along. AFAIK the most likely possibilities are
* whenever water spilled on the floor in front of the vanity it ran to this point, and over time (25 years) caused the swelling.
* There were some structural issues with the house when first built. Eventually the front wall had piers installed underneath it and the area under the bathroom had its original I-Joists doubled up to strengthen the floor (15 years ago). It's possible there was shifting and that caused this. (I'll just note here that to the best of my (and an engineer's) ability to observe there aren't further structural issues and none of the four tile installations in the house have failed, so I'm willing to go ahead with this job and accept that risk.)

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Old 11-21-2017, 11:28 AM   #25
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Can you get to the subfloor from underneath?
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Can you get to the subfloor from underneath?
What a great question!

My garage is underneath, and I've removed quite a bit of drywall for the plumbing and electrical work. (mostly in 1' strips across the joists to simplify patching the ceiling again)

I stuck my head into the existing openings and could see the plywood was a bit higher. I almost posted that was all I could see, but then I decided to open up one of the slots one joist bay further down (incremental time of additional drywall repairs at this point is basically zero) just for a close enough look. I found the pictures below, which seem to show (now dry) water damage along the top of one of the I-joists, I think going from the wet wall behind the vanity toward the front of the vanity.

The vanity is about to be removed and the drywall on the wall above the vanity was already removed, so there's no cost to remove the drywall behind the vanity and go exploring. Once I know what's going on in that wall (or have some idea where else the damage came from), should be easy to fix the plumbing issue.

At that point I'm inclined to replace the subfloor under the vanity to eliminate the damaged piece. From what I can see from above and below it's confined to under the vanity, so there won't be foot traffic pushing on the seam anyway (maybe I'll spline it just for good measure).

I assume that will "address" the issue.

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Old 12-27-2017, 07:59 PM   #27
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Sanded or unsanded grout for shower floor

Thanks again for the help. The plywood definitely had gotten wet at some point in time. Might have just been a drain leaking at some point in history, but I never could figure out where the water came from. Just to be safe I replaced the supply pipes in that area (there were 3" finish nails driven through from the other wall, and I thought maybe one could have slightly pierced the pipe and sealed with corrosion), and then I replaced the subfloor. I've now gotten the floor in and am on to grouting.

I'm using Keracolor S for the main tiles, which have 1/8" grout spacing (and pebble trim). But the shower floor (mosaic hex) has 1/16-3/32 spacing. I'd been planning on using the sanded grout for that as well so it will match, but Mapei seems to have some pretty strong words saying not to use sanded grout in smaller joints. Should I use the sanded grout for consistency, or switch to unsanded just for the shower floor?

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Old 12-27-2017, 08:31 PM   #28
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The mapei ultracolor FA can be used in joints that small without issues.
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:53 PM   #29
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Interesting. I wasn't aware of that as an option (though the "fast setting" claim scares me a bit. Generally I don't need less time with tiling ).

I've already grouted the main tiles with the S, though, so it's just the shower floor left. So I guess the question is just should I go ahead with the S, or switch to U or FA?

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Old 12-27-2017, 09:55 PM   #30
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I wouldnt use the unsanded, it will not hold up being on the shower pan. I can't tell you whether the keracolor S will work on joints that small its just not a product I use.
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