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Unread 01-17-2017, 02:39 PM   #1
Gavin0125
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Steam shower question

Good afternoon. So i have a question for you. I have been asked to install a roll-on/paint on hydroban waterproofing on the walls/ceiling for a steam shower of durrock cement board. Will this work? Even if i apply 2-3 complete coats of the hydroban i am just not sure if this is correct process. My head was telling me to use a product like a Schluter kerdi system. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 04:55 PM   #2
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Any painted on waterproofing system calls for 2 coats (not 1, not 3 or more). You need to read the spec for the material regarding its perm rating and pay VERY careful attention to the installation instructions for it to work along with excellent craftsmanship and execution - IMHO, it's a little easier to obtain the required perm rating with a sheet, but, at least with some liquids, it is possible, at least for a residential rating. There are different requirements for commercial, constant use steam showers verses occasional use, residential ones - is this residential or commercial?

The product you select will depend on the application and the required perm rating.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 07:44 PM   #3
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Steam Shower Schluter Ditra System help needed!

Thank you jadnashua. This is a new home residential construction application. I think i am going to pursue the Schluter system. I have not installed one of these before. I have read the installations before but would like some advice. Can anyone here help me out as for as the process goes?
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Unread 01-17-2017, 07:48 PM   #4
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Doug,

Call your area Rep. This is what they do. There are free hands on seminars as well. Watch as many Schluter videos as you can.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 07:50 PM   #5
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Doug, Ditra is not a material you would use in a shower, steam or otherwise. Perhaps you are thinking of using Schluter's Kerdi membrane?

If so, I would recommend you visit the Kerdi website and download the Installation Handbook for the product and become very familiar with it before you go any further. Steam showers are not something you want to undertake casually.

Will this be a residential or commercial use steam shower?
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Unread 01-17-2017, 07:56 PM   #6
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Thank you guys.
@CX yes, i had my terminology incorrect. I meant the Schluter Kerdi Membrane.
This a new construction residential application.
I am looking into the Kerdi web-site right now.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 09:13 PM   #7
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@CX. Thank you for the link to the Schluter Kerdi site. Very helpful. Now the install seems pretty straight forward. My question would be what kind of prep work should be done behind the cement board/green board prior to the installation of the kerdi membrane? I am excited to install this.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 09:24 PM   #8
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Keep in mind that Kerdi does not qualify for use in a "continuous use" steam shower, Doug. I would have no objection to using it in a residential steam shower, but I would want a CBU as the backing material.

You'll want substantial insulation in the shower walls and ceiling (and under floor if applicable) and you must have a ceiling sloped a minimum of 2" per foot, movement accommodation joints in all changes of plane, among other requirements that are different from a traditional shower. I would strongly recommend you get a copy of the current TCNA Handbook and look at the recommendations found there.

Again, not nearly as simple as building a shower.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 09:31 PM   #9
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Thanks CX!
Yes i caught that from the Kerdi site too. It is a residential shower. Not going to be used as a steam shower regularly. But it has the capability to be used as one. As for your comment about CBU, you mean cement board correct? Just want to get my facts right. The ceiling is no issue for slope. As a matter of fact it is a cathedral ceiling in the bathroom so it has an extreme amount of pitch. As for insulation, one wall is located on the exterior side of the home. So obviously there is insulation. The question is here, should there be visqueen or some sort of vapor barrier placed over the insulation prior to the cement board install? Thank you again.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 09:48 PM   #10
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CBU=Cementitious Backer Unit.

I would not want any vapor barrier material on the other side of my CBU wallboard. In your part of the country I would actually prefer to build another 2x4 wall against that outside wall for additional insulation, but that's entirely up to you. As long as you have at least 2x6 wall construction, well insulated, you may do fine. More is better when building a steam shower.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 11:26 PM   #11
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There are two varieties of Kerdi, the 'normal' stuff, and KerdiDS which is thicker. To meet the commercial rating, you need the thicker stuff, but Kerdi should work fine for an occasional use residential steam shower. Both are waterproof, but KerdiDS has a lower perm rating than Kerdi.

The biggest hassle people have with installing any sheet membrane over CBU is ignoring the requirement to dampen the wall surface. Some CBU's are worse than others, but they all will suck a significant amount of moisture out of the thinset prior to you being able to install the membrane, and that makes embedding the fleece really difficult. On none of the sheet membranes, does the thinset actually stick like a glue...it bonds because it needs to flow around the fleece, and then, when it cures, it locks things in place.
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Unread 01-18-2017, 02:56 AM   #12
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Here are the perm ratings for some products that you may consider using for your steam shower:

USG Durock Shower System Waterproofing Membrane 12 mil perm rating <0.075

Schluter Kerdi-DS 20 mil perm rating .18

And for your paint on membrane
Custom Buildings Redgard Liquid 30 mil dry film perm rating .36

While it may seem easier to use the paint on product, in reality, it probably takes more skill and attention to detail to wind up with a minimum 30 mil dry film over the entire surface of the shower than it would be to use one of the other two products.
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Unread 01-18-2017, 09:51 AM   #13
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Thank you jadnashua & Actuary. I have the installation manuals and the material check list in hand for the kerdi schluter shower systems. I need to get specifics from my builder and the client: Type of tile to be used, body spray count, control location, steam generator location, drain desire orientation, niche locations. There is quite a bit of planning involved. Now the next question i have is: Is there a particular tile i should direct the client towards or away from? Meaning porcelain vs natural stone? Will either have an issue adhering to the membrane with the non-modified thinset as the manual calls out?
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Unread 01-18-2017, 11:16 AM   #14
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I will only add that you should NOT use "greenboard." Regular drywall, please.
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Unread 01-18-2017, 11:20 AM   #15
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Okay. To recap, the current conditions in the new construction home are as follows:
Master bathroom Steam Shower: 1/2" Durrock cement board
Boy's bathroom shower: 1/2" green board drywall.

So i will discuss the drywall in the boy's bath and ask it to be removed by the builder. Will the 1/2" Durrock cement board work for both areas then?
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