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Unread 01-05-2017, 02:36 PM   #1
alby
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Tile Over PVC Board

Name:  Window Jamb.1.jpg
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Can I attach marble directly to pvc board with thinset?

I'm making a window jamb.

The plan is to attach 5/8" white Carrara without a backerboard or Kerdiboard.
Al

Edit: I'm just going to route that outer layer of PVC board to accept 5/32" of thinset and 3/16" Kerdiboard. (There will be a thickness of about 7/16" of PVC left.) Then I'll attach the marble on top of that.

That will make the marble flush with the inner course of PVC.
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Unread 01-05-2017, 02:53 PM   #2
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Answer to first question is no.

Answer to the question you didn't ask is probably also no.

The PVC "lumber" I'm familiar with moves a lot, (expands/contracts) and isn't intended for anything structural, window jamb or otherwise.

I'd recommend wood jamb, then the opening waterproofed and sealed to glass assembly.
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Unread 01-05-2017, 03:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbidetooth
Answer to first question is no.

Answer to the question you didn't ask is probably also no.

The PVC "lumber" I'm familiar with moves a lot, (expands/contracts) and isn't intended for anything structural, window jamb or otherwise.

I'd recommend wood jamb, then the opening waterproofed and sealed to glass assembly.
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I'm using Veranda from HomeDepot.

The product brochure states, "It is perfect for use in moisture prone applications such
as ground contact, masonry contact, hot tub surrounds,
freeze boards, rooflines and garage door jambs, etc."

"Perfect replacement for wood"

But that, "Fasteners should penetrate into flat, solid wood substrate
or framing member a minimum of 1-1/4”
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Unread 01-05-2017, 03:14 PM   #4
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What they're describing there is considered trim, Alby. "Garage door jamb" is somewhat misleading, but it's just cladding over the actual structure.

I would not suggest you use it to support glass assembly and I suspect the manufacturer would agree. If it were useful there, I expect window manufacturers would be all over it and they're not.
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Unread 01-05-2017, 03:20 PM   #5
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PVC Jamb

From build and rebuild blogspot.

"I chose Azek PVC for the sill as I've seen this rot out when people leave the windows open and a storm rolls in and soaks that piece over and over, right?

The side and head jambs are cypress, because PVC IS plastic and prone to heat issues here in the tropical sun - it will fluctuate in size."

Oh well...

I did make some jambs out of PVC (Veranda) before. They held up well, but I live in New Jersey. The houses are only 6' feet apart so they provide shade for the jambs that I made.
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Unread 01-05-2017, 03:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbidetooth
What they're describing there is considered trim, Alby. "Garage door jamb" is somewhat misleading, but it's just cladding over the actual structure.

I would not suggest you use it to support glass assembly and I suspect the manufacturer would agree. If it were useful there, I expect window manufacturers would be all over it and they're not.
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Yup. I'll give them a call and see what's up...
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Unread 01-05-2017, 03:45 PM   #7
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PVC Jamb

Peter,

I talked to the lady at Veranda (877-977-2396). She said that I could use it for window jambs.

I asked her about the potential movement issues from heat exposure. She said that the product becomes "noodle soft" at 225 degrees. Just as long as I don't approach that limit, she said that I was "fine".

I'll call again tomorrow. To be honest, she sounded like an oriental lady at a call center in Asia somewhere. I'll also take a picture of the jambs that I made 2 years ago and check their condition.

Thanks for your help.
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Unread 01-05-2017, 04:13 PM   #8
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Noodle soft, huh? that's an interesting performance parameter. I look at it from the perspective of what and where it's being used in modern construction.

Do your own test. Take a stick of it and put in in your refrigerator overnight, take it out and immediately measure it's length. Now warm it up in your oven to say 125° and do same. I'm betting you'll see some really significant change. Wood doesn't do that.

It's not that it deteriorates, in fact it's pretty rot proof. What is isn't is stable and it can't support loads like lumber. Decks are a good example. Trex and it's ilk do fine when used as the decking, but they're never used and not recommended for the supporting frame.

It has it's place in the building world, but it won't displace wood or steel.
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Unread 01-05-2017, 04:35 PM   #9
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What kind of wood do you recommend?

I'm thinking cedar is good. It's the only s4s wood that I see in Home Depot.

What about just making the sill out of PVC lumber and the rest in wood?
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Unread 01-06-2017, 04:23 AM   #10
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I've used lots of PVC trim pieces for both exterior and interior trim and I generally prefer it to wood (rot resistance, consistency, no knots, etc.). However, I would never try to tile directly to PVC. The coefficient of thermal expansion of PVC is more than 3 times that of concrete and almost 10 times that of brick masonry:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/li...ents-d_95.html

You'd be setting yourself up for debonding pretty quickly.
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Unread 01-06-2017, 08:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyDIYguy
I've used lots of PVC trim pieces for both exterior and interior trim and I generally prefer it to wood (rot resistance, consistency, no knots, etc.). However, I would never try to tile directly to PVC. The coefficient of thermal expansion of PVC is more than 3 times that of concrete and almost 10 times that of brick masonry:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/li...ents-d_95.html

You'd be setting yourself up for debonding pretty quickly.
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Thanks Warren,

Your link doesn't work.

Yup. I'm already switching to wood.

Should I waterproof the outside?

If I don't use Veranda for the outside sill, I'll have to sand it down just enough for paint and pitch it as close to 14 degrees as possible. Sometimes sills can cup upwards and hold water.
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Unread 01-06-2017, 09:12 AM   #12
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Alby, I'd probably use redwood, but I have the capability to fabricate what I need.

On a recent shower window, I limited outside wood exposure by sinking window assembly into frame just enough to add stops thus minimizing exposure.

I primed everything before install. It's hard to see in drawing but the stops were splayed which created the desired pitch on bottom stop.
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Unread 01-06-2017, 11:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbidetooth
Alby, I'd probably use redwood, but I have the capability to fabricate what I need.

On a recent shower window, I limited outside wood exposure by sinking window assembly into frame just enough to add stops thus minimizing exposure.

I primed everything before install. It's hard to see in drawing but the stops were splayed which created the desired pitch on bottom stop.
Argh! Redwood sounds great but its not available here where I am on the East Coast.

I'll just have to wrap everything up so it's sealed from the weather.

I bought some pine at Lowe's today. Out of more than 50 boards, I found 7 straight ones lol!

About the outside stops, I already made some 3/4 stops out of the PVC so I'll be using those.

Also, I might make the sill on the outside from PVC but that's it.

But first I gotta eat, then I'm joining the wood so everything is straight.

I'll take a picture of the jamb when I'm done.

Thanks for the help Peter.
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Unread 01-06-2017, 01:17 PM   #14
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Sorry, try this link instead:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/li...ents-d_95.html
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Unread 01-07-2017, 06:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyDIYguy
whoa! Thanks for the evidence Warren! I'm glad you showed me this. I'll bookmark it for future reference.
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