Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 12-13-2016, 09:27 PM   #1
smcginn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
glass tile is cracking

Our master bathroom was completed in August with glass tiles (4x12s and 6x12s) on the walls and marble on the floor and bench. The glass tile has begun cracking and we currently have 9 tiles that are severely cracked. Needless to say, we have been reading everything that we can about why this is happening (obviously the tile guy did not do something right and our GC says she is working on figuring out what/why this is happening.) I will post a few pictures from when the tiles first started cracking and will take and post some more (with the feathering in the next few days). Any and all advice is great--this GC had good reviews and we had everything permitted but it didn't seem to matter!
Attached Images
   
__________________
SM
smcginn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 12-13-2016, 09:37 PM   #2
rmckee84
Moderator
 
rmckee84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 3,006
You'll need to fill us in on how the shower was constructed. Unfortunately glass is a little iffy in showers do to the temp swings that occur from use. Without proper construction glass tiles are prone to cracking. And in some cases cracking can occur with all the proper precautions in place.
__________________
Jack of most trades, master of none...
Ryan McKee
McKee Construction & Custom Tile
rmckee84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-13-2016, 09:40 PM   #3
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 89,530
Welcome, SM.

We're gonna need a lot more information to even begin guessing.

1. Brand name, make and model of the tiles.

2. Brand name, make and model of the bonding mortar used.

3. Brand name, make and model of the grout.

4. Substrate over which tiles were set.

5. Framing over which the substrate was installed.

6. Treatment of grout joints at all changes of plane in the shower.

7. Water containment method used, i.e. type of waterproofing membrane if any.

If you have any "during" photos of the shower construction they might be very helpful.

Let's start with that and see how far we can go.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-13-2016, 10:23 PM   #4
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 28,194
Sabra contacted me through another forum. She sent me the same pictures plus these:
Attached Images
        
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-13-2016, 10:35 PM   #5
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 32,212
If this shower has a pan liner type of water containment, nailing cement board to the curb should not have been done. It has nothing to do with the tiles cracking but will cause other problems down the road.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-13-2016, 10:38 PM   #6
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 28,194
Sabra,

1- Glass tiles shouldn't be cut into L shapes as they are very prone to cracking. Its highly advisable to spend some time on the layout of the plumbing fixtures as to avoid L shapes. Where L shapes are mandatory, the inside of the L should be as rounded as possible, spreading out the stresses as much as possible.

2- Its easy to see from the quality of the cuts and the L shaped tiles, these guys aren't well versed with glass tiles. With the proper blade, the cuts should be clean and crisp with no rough edges. Watch this video for the fastest, easiest way to cut glass tiles, then this video of glass tiles being cut with my favorite glass cutting diamond blade.

3- There seems to be screws through the top of the curb holding the ceement board (CBU) into place. This is a no no. Due to the rest of the shower construction we can see, there should be a vinyl liner underneath which they breached with the screws. Hopefully there should be no screws on the inside of the curb. Do you remember any?

4- The ceement board isn't waterproof. Do you remember any sheet plastic over the studs? If not, the red stuff should be covering the entire surface.

5- The ceement boards on the floors should have thinset underneath them. Do you remember any thinset going onto the plywood right before each board was placed?
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-13-2016, 10:41 PM   #7
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 28,194
how glass tiles can be cut
Attached Images
    
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2016, 06:52 AM   #8
Todd Groettum
Theoriginaltileguytodd
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Great White North
Posts: 275
I am not going to second guess the methodology used here but the Workmanship looks pretty good ( other than the durock curb top and without knowing the type pan done I would be simply surmising)
It is natural when something fails to want to blame someone, hell, anyone but there are times when it is a material problem, Not a workmanship problem...

This could be one of those times....I guess all I am saying besides "I hate GLASS Tile" is Lets not hang the installer just yet, not without more input....

And as a side note I can Hate glass tile...I am retired and no longer have to deal with it...
__________________
Todd

theoriginaltileguytodd
Todd Groettum is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2016, 10:16 AM   #9
MAPEI - Technical Service
Company Representative
 
MAPEI - Technical Service's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 967
Are the inside corners grouted or do they have silicone sealant in them? From the picture it looks like they're grouted. If that's the case, you have nowhere for any expansion in the glass to go and that's a very likely contributing factor to your cracking. Glass expands a lot, you're heating it up in the shower while the substrate behind it is still cool. That expansion needs to go somewhere and the soft joints (the siliconed corners) are designed to do that.
__________________
Holden

http://www.mapei.com/US-EN/
MAPEI Product Tech Support Hotline 1-800-992-6273
MAPEI - Technical Service is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2016, 04:33 PM   #10
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 28,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by her GC
I have talked to three installers and shown them the pictures. They do not have any idea while the tiles would be cracking. I am going to go to Floor & D├ęcor to speak with them about the tile. I will update you as soon as I have more information. We installed your tile with flexible thin set over cement board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabra
Does this sound right? I thought that you had to put a waterproof membrane for glass not just cement board because of the expanding and contracting
There is no such animal as a 'flexible' thinset. They all cure hard like cement, because that is the primary ingredient after sand. The membrane does provide some measure of movement protection, but generally as one large wall panel and not per individual tiles. Perimeter joints being properly filled with 100% silicone caulking give room for expansion and contraction, aside from being required by the TCNA.

Further, the waterproofing is required no matter what type of tile is on the surface. Full waterproofing to 70 inches over the bathroom floor is required by the United Plumbing Code (UPC) See attached document. Your local plumbing code may or may not have a different name, but generally they all follow the same requirement for waterproofing (again regardless of the surface tile)

Sounds like he has no idea of the specifications for glass tile installation and now is blowing smoke in every direction.
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2016, 04:34 PM   #11
smcginn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
cracking tile

thanks for the replies. I believe that the grout was added directly to the cement board and then the tile was added. I'm not sure about the nails.
__________________
SM
smcginn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2016, 04:38 PM   #12
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 28,194
To bring you up to speed on the correct terminology to help you understand;

Thinset is the mortar used between the tile and the ceement board

Grout is the mortar used between each tile.

You see the grout in the finished product. You should not see the thinset on the finished product. The grout has no role in bonding the tiles to the cement board.
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2016, 05:28 PM   #13
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 13,323
FWIW, cement based products bond by growing interlocking crystalline spikes...those spikes are fairly brittle. But, they can bend slightly (think glass). A modified thinset provides a slightly less rigid coating between those crystals...helping to support them and offering a microscopically small space for slightly more flex...but, all of that flex is VERY small.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2016, 06:20 PM   #14
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 6,755
I'm trying to see where he used mesh tape for the seams and it doesn't look like he used any. In post 1/photo 1 there's a cracked tile next to the niche. If it's the niche on the back wall then there is a vertical seam in the cbu right there.

The cement board install looks ok before mudding the seams. It looks like it's 16 oc and staggered boards. Except for the curb part of it obviously. But the curb isn't causing the wall tile to crack.

Do we know yet what kind of thinset was used and who manufactures the glass?
__________________
Jim Upton
DIYTileGuy
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2016, 07:25 PM   #15
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 28,194
I found the glass manufacturer, if its the right one, with the instructions you'd expect
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Whois fault - Glass tiles are cracking ProStone Tile Forum/Advice Board 21 04-01-2012 08:10 AM
Glass Shower Tiles are Cracking...Help! Ilene Fine Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 12-01-2010 11:17 PM
Glass tiles cracking ? mastercrafttile Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 04-14-2009 08:14 AM
Glass Tile Cracking DDH Tile Forum/Advice Board 22 07-14-2004 06:35 PM
Glass Tile Cracking - Help DMFisk Tile Forum/Advice Board 10 02-14-2002 04:43 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:24 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC