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Old 12-15-2016, 10:13 AM   #16
Todd Groettum
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self leveling cement...3/8" thickness 16 s/f aprox per bag retail cost 32.00 ( best guess)

Sand Mix - 1 1/4" nominal thickness..5 -6 s/f per 80# bag retail cost 5.00

SLC for 200 s/f 13 - 50# bags..<425.00
Sand mix = 40 - 80# bags + 1 50# thinset.... 220.00

Job time SLC - 3 hours
Job time Mud - 3 days ( for first timer)( and a couple more changing out and trimming out the problems created by the extra height)
Amount of extra labor- TONS ( you would be better off raking the neighbors yard and spending that money for the SLC )

Just my Opinion of course
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Old 12-15-2016, 01:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argile
flat and glazed and a little too slippery to be sold legally
I'm not sure thats an accurate assessment. It may not meet the Dynamic Coefficiant of Friction (.42 or greater I believe) required to be used on floors that will be walked on wet but that doesn't mean it can't sold for other use.

That said, I've had good results reducing the "slipperiness" of tile on a couple of occasions with a product called Invisi-tread.
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Old 12-15-2016, 09:46 PM   #18
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I don't think you could hand mix SLC fast enough to get an even floor. Think of it like dropping candle wax on a table multiple times, trying to get a uniform surface. Won't happen.
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:57 AM   #19
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No but you could borrow or rent a 1/2" mixing drill buy a mixer at the big box store along with a few buckets, mark a water pail for an exact one bag mix and so long as you keep pouring and keep your wet edge under 5 minutes you are fine....
The larger the area the more help you can use but i once did a 180 bag pour with just 3 of us..took under 4 hours so we were running pretty steady and mixing 2 bags at a time in a cut down 30 gal blue plastic barrel
Was wishing for a pump truck that day

Like any large area and concrete i was wore out when we were done let me tell ya
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Old 12-16-2016, 04:02 PM   #20
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Thanks for responses!

Here's how it turned out: the grout helped lippage and the floor is no longer "slick" (because i grouted 2x due to shrinkage, removed late it was hard to get off, the lippage grout turned out well, and floor is really scrubbed clean!). From what I understand I kept within code including threshhold (note one door is W shaped it flows into next floor not yet screeded).

The project was A FAILURE time-wise, but "is a floor", and i gained experience in "what goes wrong, how to deal with it within code" (as well as when i should reset a floor to save time rather that "save it").

I had many things working against me combined: floor un-level (1/2" or more in long 1/4" wide, differing height tile (the marble is thicker - with floor unlevel - this combined to disallow use of notched trowel), choice of 1/16" spacers - sand causing spacing variation (because tiles had to be press leveled in), and perfect square tiles (harder lippage constraints), special layout (more cuts). the sample layout didn't warn me of all that (i now know not to use a sample layout to judge anything but layout). But due to that - the mortar is pretty thick (~ 1/4") and solid after all that pressing (very few and small cavities)

Thanks again!
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:04 PM   #21
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thanks much i see invisi-tread is at homedepot by the gallon

it just so happens i left my grout on too long (some joints appears wet but that fooled me) and i had to rub it all of with a rag (sponge too slow to get it all up before window time)

tile is now less slippery. i'm unsure if wiping the grout off tile with rag removed the glaze or what, but the tile now is not 1/2 as slippery. i hope i didn't remove glaze that the "tile requires", but se la vie, it's treads better than slick tile now.
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:25 PM   #22
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Should you decide on SLC, it might be prudent to get a quote from a company with a pump truck. They probably have a minimum, and your job might not meet it, but if it does...much easier (except on the pocketbook!) and quicker.
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Old 12-17-2016, 08:52 AM   #23
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Jim, it didnt sound like a large enough area for a pump truck but I may have misread something into the original post where he mentions a few bags
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:49 AM   #24
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help: got myself in a jamb this morning: foam board problem and time is ticking.

Bonding foam board insulation to an un-even (not screeded) concrete wall is problematic. wall is 14'x7.5', two sections, badly poured concrete wall (ex. forms never cleaned between uses)

I'm considering using thinset OR a drywall compound (i have a huge bucket of USGS general purpose drywall compound i'm sure i'll use less than half of before it goes bad). WHY? well read and see what I think my choices* are below.

The wall had a mold issue (plumbing leak), there is still slight moisture but possibly enough to allow mold to continue (french drain i'm thinking i'll do in spring?)

I was just about to knee-jerk in some foam insulation with "good stuff" and realized: "everwhere of several places i've used 'good stuff', except one, it separated and was useless".

I cannot use "foam board adhesive" (which is latex based caulk i think). My wall + bend of old-stock poor foam board is 1/2" or more (to stiffly bend). My experience with caulk and 1/2" is: no.

My concern is: foam board with large gaps (ie, good stuff used and later separates as it usually does) is: total waste of time and money, may as well have no insulation than install insulation with gaps that freely allow airflow around/under them.

I'd already have installed fiberglass - but i have 2'l stud spacing and modified concrete-wall spacing ... i'd have to be cutting and stuffing the fiberglass (think: itchy) and I'd be sure in several years the fiberglass would be moldy.

here are my choices that I know of:

------------------------------

_ follow DiY advice and use "good stuff" even though the manufacturer says "it burns the foam, do not use" and my experience is: it will separte and be as if i just left the board there with no sealer at all

* cut foam board into 2' square tiles (hugely increasing the amount of caulk on the concrete wall), the gaps would then be more like 1/8", fine.

* Use good thinset (latex/polymer modified white thinset - which is good for whitewashing or patching walls), mud the darn 4''x8' foam board (or 2'x2' foam tiles) in.

* Use USGS all purpose joint compound to mud the foam board (tiles) in. I've heard rumor it's ok to use joint compound to fill a pitted concrete wall before painting. I'm guessing mold hates gypsum and that if my gaps are 1/4" the mud will be firm and set - and foam tiles mudded in would have very minimal air leakage (good insulation install) and also be very long lived. (if the wall ever were screeded, it would be easier to remove than caulk).

* use fiberglass, consign to mold issue and re-doing wall in future, though i've used metal stud - kinda dumb. get itchy and frustrated.

* return $60 of foam board, cry on the foam board i already cut, and install my drywall immediately, skip the fiberglass too.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:51 AM   #25
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Schluter allows for the use of (very large) dot setting with thinset of kerdi board over masonry surfaces. Its in one of their videos.

scroll down to 'masonry surfaces' and mute the annoying music selection.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:51 AM   #26
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(p.s. i'm sure if i use fasteners they will eventually pull through the foam, the foam will want want to return to it's original shape and has no substance to prevent it from doing so, it's very flakey stuff, i would guess even glue would pull off. 1/2" of stiff deflection right where the bonding is needed, due to uneven wall? it simply cannot be done)
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:02 AM   #27
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I think he's right - I was thinking it was the "safest choice" from when i first thought of it.

I would like comment on whether USGS All Purpose Joint Compound should be tested. It would be much quicker/easier to use. I'm thinking it's a better idea than caulk or esp. good stuff. If i don't get a comment I think i'll just open a bag of mortar. motar isn't the way they say to install foam board - but they are trying to *sell* it in those videos
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:10 AM   #28
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Pre-mixed joint compound shrinks as it dries, in big globs takes quite a while to dry, and isn't as sticky as well mixed thinset.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:11 AM   #29
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Drywall compound has no bonding properties that would be usefull in this case. I gather you're talking about board foam and not KerdiBoard...right? XPS? EPS?

The concrete needs to be cleaned enough to bond to. No loose stuff, no form release, dirt, etc. Gun foam would be my choice assuming XPS foam, although I think it would work on EPS as well.

I wouldn't count on this being structural in any case. Framing it somehow would be necessary methinks.

My go-to stuff:


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dow-GREAT-S...8-4bf41f261111

One other possibility is PL Premium which doesn't melt foam board like conventional const. adhesive. Again surfaces must be clean...bond is only as good as what the stuff is stuck to. It expands as it cures though, so in the thicknesses you're describing, I'd prop it in place or it will surely move in ways you likely don't want.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:39 AM   #30
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PL works great with kerdi board. We use it all the time. Sikaflex works well too. The problem with the more liquid / fluid glues ; they won't hold a piece of board flat if the board puts up a fight.
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