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Old 12-29-2013, 08:42 PM   #31
dhagin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis
So what does that mean for my project?
Don't listen to cheery CX.

More boards.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:28 AM   #32
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CX failed to tell you to bleed out in the tub, less mess.
Here's a link to the boring guide.
http://www.tileyourworld.com/constru...oringGuide.pdf

Are you doing this with a permit? If not I wouldn't worry. If so, you will have to meet those guidelines with the drain or reroute it. I would try to map that electric too. Code would require a dedicated 20 amp circuit for your GFCI receptical(s).

BTW, those americast tubs are only 100 lbs, and not bad IMO

Keep us posted.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:15 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by by-eye
CX failed to tell you to bleed out in the tub, less mess.
Here's a link to the boring guide.
http://www.tileyourworld.com/constru...oringGuide.pdf

Are you doing this with a permit? If not I wouldn't worry. If so, you will have to meet those guidelines with the drain or reroute it. I would try to map that electric too. Code would require a dedicated 20 amp circuit for your GFCI receptical(s).

Keep us posted.
Mark,

But the tub is gone ...

Thanks for the link. That boring guide is helpful.

The drain will have to run through the floor joists but I'll make the holes 2". Either that or I run it down the exterior or interior wall to the basement and hook into a drain pipe there. Would not be an easy project but doable.

The bores are 2 ft from the outside wall, just on the edge of the 2/3rds center that needs to be sistered. Would I gain anything by moving them closer to the outside wall? Drilling more holes - even after putting in the sisters - seem like I'd be going the wrong direction.

I keep reminding myself that this structure has been in place for over 50 years. Seems to be holding okay.

I'll be mapping out my electrical. I'm also putting in a Nuheat mat, which I understand requires its on circuit.

Permits? What are those?
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:19 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhagin
Don't listen to cheery CX.

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Dana,

Yes, that is the plan. Do you think this now calls for full span sisters? Or suppose I place the sisters in the middle 2/3rds as planned, which takes them just to the edge of the bores. Then sister the other side over the bores from the outside wall overlapping the bores by 2 to 3 feet. Any benefit in that?

Would I gain anything by using LVL for the sisters?
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CX
There's just not a hellofa lot a fella can do in situations like that except to provide additional support under the joists if that's feasible. Otherwise you just hope that's a really nice joist and manages to remain sufficiently rigid, I suppose.
Additional support under the joist is not feasible without sticking a column in the dinning room.

It has been in place for over 50 years and seems to be holding strong. Nonetheless, I need to beef it up for the tile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CX
Looks like it's too close to the holes for the wiring, too.
Which wiring holes are you referring to?

Thanks!
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:47 PM   #36
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The notching and boring guide is derived from extensive testing by the lumber industry, and once you exceed hole/notch size/location, the joist no longer functions as a joist according to code.

So, that means you need 2 sisters, unless the notch/hole is closer to the end then you'd need a new full length joist + 1 sister. Other options, which I'd consider were this my project, would be (1) 3x joist or some type of engineered joist instead of 3 partial joists cobbled together.

Make sense?
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:13 PM   #37
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This is just opinion, and not pro advice.

Since you deflection is not bad, and your not doing a permit, I would consider some options. Sistering is going to be a big job when you get into that electric. Read http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=57494 alternative for ideas.

Use 3/4 BC t+g ply, imbed the nuheat in SLC, and use uncoupling membrane, and you should be ok. You can also get reinforcement steel for the pipe holes.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:52 PM   #38
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I'd sister both sides with 2x lumber....and I'd run the sisters well past the drain hole, all the way to the adjacent wall. There's no reason to limit the sisters to "center two-thirds"; more is better in your case. If you drill new 1-3/4 holes centered over the existing hole, how close to the edge would the new holes be?

No need for a utility knife.
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:51 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodie Powers
I'd sister both sides with 2x lumber....and I'd run the sisters well past the drain hole, all the way to the adjacent wall. There's no reason to limit the sisters to "center two-thirds"; more is better in your case. If you drill new 1-3/4 holes centered over the existing hole, how close to the edge would the new holes be?
Edge of the joist or edge of the room?

Joists are 2x8s so approximately 2.75" from joist edge with 1.75" holes. If I re-drill at current location after installing sisters the holes are approximately 2 ft from the outside wall. In theory, I could move the drain all the way to the outside wall edge with some modification to the trunk tie-in.
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:04 PM   #40
Bodie Powers
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Sorry....let me try again. If you sister both sides with 2x8's and then drill 1-3/4" holes that are centered over the existing 2-1/2" hole, how far from the sistered joists edges would the new 1-3/4" holes be? Make sense what I'm asking?

In addition, I would extend the sistered joists as far beyond the drain holes as possible....IIRC you said the holes were about 2' from where they're headed off at that side wall....so you'd run them ~2' past the holes.

I wouldn't move the drain line to a new location beyond where the sisters end.
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:52 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodie Powers
Sorry....let me try again. If you sister both sides with 2x8's and then drill 1-3/4" holes that are centered over the existing 2-1/2" hole, how far from the sistered joists edges would the new 1-3/4" holes be? Make sense what I'm asking?

In addition, I would extend the sistered joists as far beyond the drain holes as possible....IIRC you said the holes were about 2' from where they're headed off at that side wall....so you'd run them ~2' past the holes.

I wouldn't move the drain line to a new location beyond where the sisters end.
If I'm getting what you are saying, the end of the sisters would just reach the holes unless I extend them further. They do not overlap the holes. I'm guessing I need to adjust this part of the plan.
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:10 PM   #42
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Yes, I'm suggesting extending the sisters well past the drain holes....the theory being that it's better to sandwich them between 2 properly drilled sisters. I'm not a structural engineer and I can't prove my theory, but in my mind it makes sense to do it that way.
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:28 PM   #43
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This is the original idea.
Name:  12-30-2013 5-58-43 PM.jpg
Views: 249
Size:  61.4 KB

I believe this is what you are proposing, correct?
Name:  12-30-2013 6-21-23 PM.jpg
Views: 244
Size:  61.8 KB
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:45 PM   #44
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So given all this effort I'm starting to think I'm better off just ripping the sheet rock out and running 'single' sisters full length or would I still have to double up on the sisters?

Also, regarding the plumbing, the only way I'll get the new PVC installed is in pieces. I'm assuming / hoping that is okay.
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:31 PM   #45
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Louis, yes that second graphic was what I was suggesting. As I said, I'm not a structural engineer and cannot provide supporting algorithms. Maybe just single sisters, but extending to the side wall, would be sufficient.

I still don't get why ripping out the ceiling is going to make this any easier. You appear to have access from the top to nearly 10' of the 12' joist span.

Not sure what you mean by "the only way I'll get the new PVC installed is in pieces". As long as your PVC meets code requirements for slope/size/, and your couplings are appropriate for the application and are properly assembled/glued per mfg specs you're OK.
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