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Unread 08-21-2010, 11:21 PM   #1
MNTileGuy
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A Word of Caution...

So about this brick set floor using the TLS system...

I dropped the ball on not disclaiming to the customer ahead of time that warpage of the tile may be an issue. They went with a high end rectified and I figured between that and the TLS, life would be peachy, why make a fuss?

Well, turns out these tile have no "give" to them and on alot of the tile just the very corners curl down. You can figure out the rest from there.

Needless to say, if I'm asked to do a brick pattern floor with rectified porcelain and a 1/16th grout joint in the future, I'll do one of three things:

1- Make customer aware of warpage issue and state such in contract.

2- Talk customer into slightly wider joint-1/8th minimum, 3/16" preferably.

3- If #1 or #2 fail, RUN!

Hopefully my story can help someone here avoid my level of frustation and a less thrilled than they should be client.
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Unread 08-21-2010, 11:26 PM   #2
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That's why the standards are changing to a max of 1/3 overlap for any running bond with the larger format tiles, Brad. Even the best manufacturers are gonna have trouble making those things flat enough for a half overlap. Just ain't gonna work at all with a narrow joint.

Ernie tole me about the TLS "flattening" some kinda tile in that situation, but I disremember just what kind it was.

Best of circumstances you still wanna do your customer education, though.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 06:09 AM   #3
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Cx, by standards do you mean manufacturer recommendations or is there actually being a TCA standard being proposed?

Seems to me that this is an inherent characteristic of the products and a simple warning would be enough. A matter of educating a customer ahead of time has always worked just fine for me.

Also if it is going to be an actual standard then whats going to happen when all the inspectors/lawyers etc. read the spec and start blaming all normal running bond lippage on the installer? That could cause alot of problems even if it is considered a just a guideline.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 06:22 AM   #4
Davestone
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I learned my lesson years ago on lippage,and brick pattern jobs fortunately.And i have also learned to basically disreguard all the rectified bragging,all tiles are irregular.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 10:44 AM   #5
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I have a job scheduled with 12x48" tiles. I am sure that will be a picnic. Yes I will use TLS on the job.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 11:45 AM   #6
ceramictec
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Quote:
They went with a high end rectified
guess it wasn't as high end as they thought.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 12:54 PM   #7
Davy
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Well, maybe I haven't seen "high end" but they are all warped from what I have seen. What Kelly said, or even a 1/4 tile overlap.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 01:04 PM   #8
tileguynky
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Davy, I think the warping and being rectified are two different things. Every rectified that I have used has been true to size from start to finish. Even the stuff at $5 a foot has been true to size.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 01:19 PM   #9
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Ive seen plenty that are dimensional..yes. but actually flat..no ...better then before.. yes...perfected ...no.

I don't see a need for a standard to confuse folks and cause legal problems and scare folks away from a basic running bond (brick) pattern.

I have many customers that even after I explain to them the disadvantage of the pattern in regards to lippage still insist on the pattern....if they like the look they will accept lippage anyways.

You still have to do your best to avoid lippage but as long as they expect it then chances are they will be pleasantly surprised when it is less noticeable then they anticipated.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 04:36 PM   #10
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I always took brick as a amateur pattern
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Unread 08-22-2010, 04:57 PM   #11
ceramictec
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I guess your missing the point Troy...I'll beam you a signal

I worked with some tile called Ferroker and it was 17x28 and it was damn flat.
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Unread 08-22-2010, 09:41 PM   #12
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I state in my proposals what they should expect in lippage based on the flatness and suggested grout joints based on variance in the tile size.

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Unread 08-23-2010, 10:14 AM   #13
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Those Ferroker tiles are made by Porcelanosa.

http://www.porcelanosa-usa.com/home/products/tile.aspx

Talked to the guy at their store and he said he has only seen a couple that were not "almost" perfectly flat.

All of their tiles I saw are 12mm thick. Almost 1/2 inch. Of course most things are large format and expensive.
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Unread 08-23-2010, 12:43 PM   #14
Dave Gobis
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All tile looks like a pillow, just a matter of how much.

JC, too late, it passed and is a standard.
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Unread 08-23-2010, 02:01 PM   #15
JC
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Oh, so all large formats(??definition of large format??) must be done with maximum 1/3 stagger to fit the guideline. No lippage height spec involved?

Why am I always the last to learn this stuff...hehe

Seriously though does anyone has a copy of the standard that can be posted for us uninformed hobbyist to peruse?
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