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Unread 08-20-2001, 06:58 AM   #1
Rob Z
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I'm starting this up because of a thread that got going on the Advice board.

For some time, I have been aware of a foam based backer board used in Europe. It is called Wedi board. Soon, it will be marketed in the US under their own name-I think ProPanel is it. I've never seen it myself.

These board have a cementitious coating similar to what is on the ProForm curbs, niches, etc, and a dense, waterproof foam core.

The initial reservation is why set tile over foam? I think this stuff is similar to the dense foam that concrete is poured over. A heavy load spread out is okay. A heavy point load will crush the foam.

Ideas?

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Unread 08-20-2001, 08:19 AM   #2
kalford
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Her original post was an expression of concern about deterioration of plywood.EG plywood will last for 30,50....hell a hundred years IF conditions are right.All the foam that I've had any experience with deteriorates and turns to dust faster than plywood.I've even seen particle board in reasonably good condition that was nearly 40 years old and we all know that plywood is far superior to that! Lab tests are fine and provide a valuable service but "realworld" testing is what I go by and plywood is a time tested and proven product.Maybe we should have reinforced that knowledge instead of grabbing for a high-tech solution from another country to a problem that,for the most part,doesn't exist.

If we can install tile over foam then I shouldn't hesitate putting backerboard over thin,hard carpet!
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Unread 08-20-2001, 02:57 PM   #3
Bud Cline
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Keith,

There are foams then there are foams. I'd be interested in knowing more about this Wedi product. I'm getting older and that cement board I swear by is getting heavier, I swear it is.
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Unread 08-20-2001, 03:02 PM   #4
Ron
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Hi guys,
I have heard about Wedi board in Germany.Apparently it is really expensive.I occasionally get these Dutch and German tile tradesman magazines and they seem to promote it as a high quality,innovative product.It's been around for over 15 years.
It seems we're way behind in the industry here in North America.They've had waterproof mortar for a long time there and I've been reading about a grout that performs like epoxy yet it is easy to use.That Dave Gobis fella should be pushing the industry to bring some of this stuff in.
Yet with all these innovations you'll see more real mud beds there than here.Over there they seem to be really adamant about uncoupling and expansion.
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Unread 08-20-2001, 03:08 PM   #5
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I'm all for investigating this product. I just didn't want to do it on the advice forum.

I'm sure Dave G. will have something to say about it too. And others.
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Unread 08-20-2001, 04:50 PM   #6
JC
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Well I have seen some styrofoam turn to dust but I have also seen some last a long time and around my parts styrofoam used to be used for boat docks but was banned because the stuff never deterioates.

Must be differant types or as Jim stated some might be open cell and the better ones would be closed cell. I dunno

I do know open cell carpet padding is crappola while closed cell will last for years very well. yet they look identacle.

I would still prefer a product like Ditra to any board just for the uncoupling action it does.
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Unread 08-21-2001, 10:07 AM   #7
chip
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JC,

What if the board never coupled?

Here I go again!

With Bonsal's new Propannel, closed cell board. You put it down with basic thin set. Sand and cement, no additives as your leveling bed.

No coupling to plywood, works a crack suppressant over concrete.

Use fasteners, and set tile on top immediately if you want.

It is water proof. Caulk seams and fasterner penetrations.

It's light, about 3lbs. for a 3x5 sheet.

It isn't inexpensive. About $1.10 s/f.

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Unread 08-21-2001, 04:51 PM   #8
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Here you go again, Art. You're talking about not adhering it to wood floors, and then in the same breath you say you can put it over concrete. Sort of gets us back to the fastening question, doesn't it?

In other words, why in the world would I want to put any kind of backer board over concrete? Shit, I'd rather use that cork you're trying to sell.
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Unread 08-21-2001, 06:57 PM   #9
Bud Cline
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Simply caulking the seams and fastener penetrations makes this product waterproof???

Are we sure about that?
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Unread 08-22-2001, 10:05 AM   #10
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When I first saw Foam backer board several years ago I would have and did say no way. After watching several years of testing, including an impact test which it passed while cement board failed, it is definetly viable. I was in Germany a few weeks ago where they have many manufactuers of similiar products in varying thicknesses and types. There are a lot of advantages to the product. The ability to apply caulking and appropriate sealant is imperative in wet applications. Even without it, it is superior in some instances to cement board or other backerboard products in many applications. It is going to be something you will see a lot of in the future. More similiar products are on the horizon. It does pass the Robinson floor test( ASTM 627 ) for floor use so that takes care of the point load arguement. Will it work in industrial rated floor applications? Not yet. Wait.
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Unread 08-22-2001, 10:38 AM   #11
Bud Cline
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So where is this stuff and what's it called? Really, my back hurts.
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Unread 08-22-2001, 03:03 PM   #12
flatfloor
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Down Under

Any of of our mates have any experience with this stuff?

Art, is your ProPanel the same stuff we are talking about?

[Edited by flatfloor on 08-22-2001 at 05:08 PM]
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Unread 08-22-2001, 05:23 PM   #13
John Bridge
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It's gettin' tougher and tougher to be a mud man around here. Good thing I'm "advanced."

I'm for anything that does a good job easier. Let's hear about it.
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Unread 08-22-2001, 05:49 PM   #14
JC
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Flatile please explain the umcoupling action it does and why to use regular mortar(unmodified) when going over wood.
I am slightly confused. Is this so it will uncouple?

Just can't grasp the concept fully yet.
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Unread 08-22-2001, 07:52 PM   #15
Rob Z
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Jim

Since Art is MIA, I'll jump in and answer. Yes, the Propanel is the same as the Wedi board.

You've got your work cut out for you coming up with a SL foam product, don't you?

Rob
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