Evaluating new house tile

[bob-dog]

Location added: Indian River County (central east coast) Florida.

e3, cx, Lazarus, Kg & Kman: Yes, it would be a true pleasure to work with people like you that really care about doing a good job and treating other trades well.

Bob

[Davy]

Bob, another bit of information. I was looking at your drawing that has the pony wall. The waterproofing layer on top of the wall should have pitch toward the shower. This is something that's rarely done but is critical in my opinion. I also pitch the top of the curb before the waterproofing layer goes on, then of course the mud bed on top of the waterproofing layer is pitched.

Your Roman shower looks to be dropped down into the slab which is common and I doubt a shower pan liner will be required unless things have changed in Florida. I would want some type of water containment system, myself. Now that I think about it, makes me wonder if the shower floor is even concrete. We have seen many pictures of showers built right on the dirt/sand in Florida. Do you recall a concrete shower floor and a pan liner or other waterproofing?

[bob-dog]

Davy,

Thank you for the advice on sloping the shower wall. That makes a lot of sense. I'll ask for it.

Yes, the shower is sunken ~3" lower than slab and currently has a dirt floor.

What are the options for tiling the shower floor? Would they put EMSER HAVANA tile over packed dirt??? That thought scares me, but I'm not a tile pro.

Would they drop in a prefab pan? Or make a containment tray out of something like Hardie backer board?

[cx]

Bob, there is a special provision in the building code that allows for the treatment of shower receptors that are recessed into the SOG foundation, but it specifies that the recess must be poured as an integral part of the concrete slab and the bottom must be sized and reinforced the same as the rest of the field of the concrete and it must be at least two inches deep. We rarely see it used outside of Florida, but it's in there.

Your shower, as described, would not qualify. I have no idea how your contractor might intend to deal with what you've got, but that recess needs a lot of help at this point. I'd surely be the one asking him just what he intends.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[Lazarus]

CX...Obviously one cannot warrantee against mold that is client-generated. My concern was prior to or at the time of occupancy.

[Davy]

I believe they usually put a dry pack mud bed right on the dirt and tile to it without a pan liner. Any moisture that seeps thru the mud would soak into the dirt. I wouldn't be in favor of this.

We have a picture somewhere here on the forum of a Florida shower done like this that has a mushroom growing out of a shower floor grout joint. We also have pictures of roots growing under the floor tiles.

[bob-dog]

Dirt, then mud, then tile.

Is this what cx was saying is allowed or not allowed?

If the "mud" hardens into a layer of concrete, why wouldn't that be as good as tiling over a slab?

This youtube video shows a flexible sheet of Water-Tite PVC 40, then Schluter Troba-Plus, then a stiff mixture of portland cement, sand and water.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ibjZa9LNK0

I'm not at all sure what to request. In theory, my builder's tile company has been laying many shower floors for this builder. Could it be that they have a cheap, easy recipe that works?

[cx]

Originally Posted by Bob

Is this what cx was saying is allowed or not allowed?

Not allowed by any code or standard of which I'm aware. Not even in Florida. That recess must be a monolithic part of your SOG foundation. Clearly it's not.

It will satisfy their tailight warranty. Possibly even last the year of your builder's expressed warranty. The builder will technically be liable forever for delivering a defective product that doesn't meet the requirements of any known building code. How will you enforce that when it fails? I dunno.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[bob-dog]

The builder has a website with many photos of models and also a 3D images. I just went there and looked at the showers in their models. All have a recessed floor, like the photos here.

[e3]

I can almost smell the moisture, just Florida..

[bob-dog]

I was wrong. Please forgive me for the error.

I went to the house again today, and looked at the shower closer. The shower floor is not dirt. It is dirty and scattered with rubble, but under that is flat concrete.

[cx]

And the shower walls are textured and painted drywall? Or am I misinterpreting the photo?

[e3]

National plumbing codes states, that the waterproofing membrane shall slope minimum quarter inch per foot to drain..( that’s under the membrane) I can’t speak for the municipality that you are in but the state of Florida also requires the slope.

[cx]

That's if there is a waterproofing membrane, Eric. But the code also has a provision allowing the elimination of the waterproofing membrane in the shower receptor if the receptor has been recessed at least two inches into the SOG foundation. I don't have a copy and I don't recall the number, but I know I've seen it in there.

No mention of how the drain is to be treated in the case of the receptor without a waterproofing membrane.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[bob-dog]

cx: I have no idea what the shower wallboard is. There is no obvious marking. It looks grey in my photos, but that could be lighting. From my photos, the edge has the appearance of cut drywall. There are also dimples that seem like they were made with a type of drywall screw. See photo below. I think that they need to do more prep before they put up tile.

e3: I didn't check the slab for slope. Would that be done with a coat of mortar when they prepare the base or is it sloped when the slab initially poured?

This would be so much easier if you guys were here overseeing the job.