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Unread 02-07-2013, 07:19 PM   #1
CustomTile
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DalTile Ayers Rock Complaint

I started putting down Daltiles Ayers Rock Bronze Beacon this week and I am installing it in a modular versailes pattern. Grout joints are 3/16 and every 6.5X6.5 I have to rip down an 1/8" on 2 sides because they are to big. I called my local Daltile and they said they haven't had any complaints. Has anyone else worked with this tile and have the same issue?
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Unread 02-07-2013, 07:23 PM   #2
John Bridge
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Hi Daryl,

I don't know that specific tile, but problems with tiles that are supposed to be modular seem to be going around. Sometimes it happens because they cut something in half to make the smaller sizes and don't consider the space of the grout joint.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 07:34 PM   #3
Davy
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I have that problem every time I install that pattern. I have to trim down a piece here and there. It's not just with Dal tile's material.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 07:34 PM   #4
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yeah, I noticed the 6.5X6.5 are the only tiles that are cut and not pressed like the other sizes. I'm just hoping to get some other feedback to see if I should not try to sell this pattern if i'm going to run into this again. I've installed this same series of tile but with a broken joint pattern and everything laid out great.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 08:04 PM   #5
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If you have to cut the smaller ones, it usually means your grout joint is bigger than intended by the manufacturer.
I know Dal publishes a standard 3/16" grout recommendation for floor tile, but I believe these are not actually manufactured by Dal, only resold; so the European or South-American manufactuer might have intended them to be a smaller joint if you want them to be modular. 1/8" is much more common for a modular versailles pattern.
If you look at the real sizes published on Dal's website, a little quick adding shows that one large rectange = (one 13" square tile + 1 small square + 1/8"). Also one 13" square = (2 small square tile + 1/8"). Both of those equations say that the real manufacturer intended a 1/8" joint for a versailles pattern.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 11:39 PM   #6
Shaughnn
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I installed a lot of the Ayers Rock product recently and I concur with Tom. 1/8" joint is what I used and I have very little worry with it.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 07:04 PM   #7
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I'm not catching or understanding what you are saying. If one tile is to big or too small the grout joint size does not matter.

Or am I missing something.?

You can check the pattern by pushing all the tiles in the pattern together tight then you can see which one(s) are too big or small.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 07:33 PM   #8
T_Hulse
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There are no tiles too big or small in this case. If you make the grout joints bigger than intended, with the versailles pattern, it will make some tile appear to big.
If you look closely at the versailles pattern, two of the 6.5" tile, plus the exact width of one grout line, must add up to exactly one full 13" tile with no grout lines. So if your grout lines are too big, it will make two of those little 6.5" tile hang past the end of the 13" tile and make the little ones appear like they need to be cut down. Hope that makes sense.
You can't dryfit a versailles pattern without grout joints, because it just won't fit together right (unless the manufacturer intended zero grout). There is only one exact grout size that works with each different tile in the versailles pattern, and you have to figure it out before you start.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 08:16 PM   #9
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On the same page now with your explanation. But this is not always true every time. Or every pattern.

If the 6" were a different caliber it could change again next time?

Just wrapping my head around different angles.
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Unread 02-09-2013, 04:35 PM   #10
CustomTile
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even with a tight joint the 6.5X6.5 are to big.
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Unread 02-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #11
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It would be nice if the manufacturers actually made their tiles be modular to fit with their suggested patterns using a 3/16th grout line.

The last 3 tile pattern I did was using Marazzi's Archeology series. When ordering I stated these were going to be set with the modified hopscotch pattern and to please make sure they're calibrated as such. Well, it worked ok without having to trim anything, but I had to use a 1/8" joint to make it fit. I guess it is what it is with these patterns.
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Unread 02-12-2013, 11:32 AM   #12
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The sizing problems we see from factory cut material is from them only cutting once instead of twice because they never take into account the width of the saw-blade.
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Unread 02-18-2013, 01:40 PM   #13
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I can't speak for Dal's products, but our cut products are cut with a 4MM (just slightly more than 1/8", slightly less than 3/16") blade to allow for a grout joint when used in a modular pattern.

Typically when customers run into problems with modular patterns, it's because they aren't paying attention to the calibers (sizes) of the tiles they are installing. We all include caliber information somewhere in the shade of the product. For best results, use tiles that are the same caliber. If that's not an option, make sure the smallest piece in the pattern is the smallest caliber. The rest of the pattern depends on the smallest piece for the grout joint to work out correctly.

The biggest thing is this... make sure whomever you're getting the tile from knows that it IS for a pattern so they can get you the correct calibers. If they don't know what you're talking about, have them call customer service of the tile company to explain it. Our CSR's have all been trained (by me) to understand how patterns go together so they can get you tile that works best on the job site.
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Unread 02-18-2013, 02:31 PM   #14
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Hi Dan,

We do appreciate your input, but don't whup it on the installer. Most of us are smart enough to check shade and calibration numbers to make sure we have all the same lot of material.

I've been through my share of tile plants, and I know basically how tiles are made. What I don't know is how bigger pieces are made into littler pieces. I suspect, though, that the cutting is done before glazing (if any) and firing, because the cut edges of the smaller pieces have to be re-shaped. So now we have all these different sizes of dried bisque heading into kilns . . . . where they will all shrink. And nobody knows exactly how they will shrink.

Caliber is assigned after firing, and the information is stamped on the boxes or wrappers, BUT when we go from one size tile to another, the calibration number changes, so there really is no way an installer can use that information when choosing tiles for a modular pattern. The only way to check it is to lay several repeats of the pattern out on the floor.

The size problem sometimes comes up when sawed stone tiles are used. I had one job of Jerusalem Stone where I had to re saw all the smallest size pieces. They were not square like they were supposed to be. They were rectangles.

It should be the responsibility of either the manufacturer or the dealer to make sure that groups of tiles sold as "modular" are truly modular. The tile guy usually doesn't get his hands on the material until it reaches the job site.

Last edited by John Bridge; 02-18-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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