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Unread 11-17-2020, 10:16 PM   #31
nmeyers
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Thanks a lot Dan, I appreciate your concern and I guess I'm going to have to get into that ceiling below it at some point to put in some bracing as CX suggested.

That is some impressive work there in your bathroom. I will try your frame approach with 2x4's where I can. I do have some joists that need to be reinforced and not just leveled, but that seems like a great way to ensure it's actually flat and level. Wish I would've thought of that...

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Unread 11-18-2020, 08:40 AM   #32
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Forgot to ask-when reinforcing that partition wall from below, what would you do exactly?
By cross blocking, do you mean "X" bracing? Perhaps every few feet in the joist bay under that wall?

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Unread 11-18-2020, 08:50 AM   #33
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No, not cross-bracing for benefit of the joists, Nick, but cross blocking for benefit of the wall support. Just putting short pieces of 2x material between the joists at the top to support that wall. Could be as small as 2x4 material, but 2x6 or larger are generally just easier to fasten. I'm a big proponent of adhesive in all parts of a subfloor structure and would add construction adhesive when I installed these new support blocks to ensure I was not introducing any irritating squeaks.

I would also "un-weight" the wall above when installing the blocking. Don't need fancy pole jacks to do that, you can do it quite effectively using 2x4s levered up from the floor below.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-18-2020, 08:50 AM   #34
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Nick, to reinforce that wall from below you'll want to add some blocking between the joists. Basically, some 2X material fastened perpendicular to the joists and snug against the bottom of the plywood. It's common to use 2X material of the same depth as the joists but in your case a 2X6 would be perfectly fine, and you could use joists hangers to fasten them. Blocking every couple of feet ought to do it, and one under where the wall ends - like at a door way.

There is an example of that blocking in the last photo you posted.
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Unread 11-18-2020, 01:13 PM   #35
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extra joists

Thank you Dan and CX both for the tips. This morning I noticed that there was an extra joist running toward the other side of the house (pic) to support another wall that is right on top of it.

So I drilled a small hole through the joist shown in my last post and confirmed there is an extra joist directly under that wall we were discussing. I don't know why I didn't think to check for this earlier. I'm guessing these walls were considered bracing walls by the designer and required the extra joists per code...

In any case, I'm thinking that should limit the concern about the wall sinking, but is there anything else you'd do?
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Unread 11-18-2020, 02:36 PM   #36
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Nope, if you are confidant there's a joist under that wall in the pic below there's nothing more you'd need to do, Nick, except be happy that it's there.
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Unread 11-18-2020, 02:57 PM   #37
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I'm not seeing in your photo anything supporting that extra joist, Nick. There a load bearing wall below there that I can't see?
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Unread 11-18-2020, 02:59 PM   #38
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Thanks Dan. Glad I noticed that because I had my drywall knife out, ready to cut into a huge popcorn living room ceiling!!
Figured out how to view your posts, and man, you've got some skills. If my bathroom turns out half as nice, I'll be thrilled.
And yes CX there is a load bearing wall below it.
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Unread 11-18-2020, 08:05 PM   #39
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Subfloor removal next to bearing wall perpendicular to joists

I guess after my near-miss I should make sure that I'm not missing something when it comes to the other walls in the bathroom.

Can I cut out the subfloor flush with a bearing wall that is perpendicular to the joists? Or should I leave some existing subfloor intact to allow for some fastening with the new plywood?

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Unread 11-18-2020, 08:22 PM   #40
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On those walls you can cut the subfloor flush with the wall if you want and add blocking between the joists to facilitate fastening the new subfloor.

My preference would likely be to leave a couple inches of the old subfloor if it's in good condition so I could just attach some 5 or six-inch plywood rips below the subfloor attached to the old subfloor with glue and screws such that at least 2" of the rip extended out for fastening of the new subflooring. I just find that method easier than installing between-joist blocking.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-18-2020, 08:59 PM   #41
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Gotcha. Makes sense. Thanks again.
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Unread 11-19-2020, 04:00 PM   #42
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Ha! If I has some skills it wouldn't have taken me 2 years. LOL

I do have some patience though!
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Unread 11-20-2020, 12:47 PM   #43
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joists that aren't plumb

Well Dan to me that just means you're probably not in the trades/doing it in your free time, which makes it more impressive!

I am now noticing some joists that are bit off from plumb (tilted from vertical along the span (you see a '/' as you look down their length). Therefore, when I add the sisters, no matter how perfectly flat and square they are, I will end up with tops that are not completely flat side-to-side, even though they are flat end-to-end. So, I will only have some portion of the joist top that will be flat and fully mate with the plywood above it.

It's not horrible-only 3 of the 9 joists are off, and it's only by about 2 degrees.

Is this tolerable? Can I get away with it? I'm thinking the adhesive will fill some of that void on the joist tops that are flat but not mating 100% with the plywood, and that this shouldn't result in cracking tile etc.

Just wondering if you had this in your MBR and if you corrected it or maybe addressed with the shimming you mentioned. In your pic they sure seem plumb but it's hard to tell.

I was also thinking to maybe set those sisters on the non-plumb joists a bit proud and then plane them down flat... but not sure if this is feasible or worth attempting.

Ideally, I know I should make the joists plumb, but they run under a wall that is a few feet in front of the exterior load bearing wall on which they sit, and would rather let that dog lie.

Thanks!
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Unread 11-21-2020, 08:41 AM   #44
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Mine were anything but plumb, Nick. And right, you're not going to be able to make them so. You'll have to resort to using a plane, sanding, shimming, cursing, etc as needed. While it would be ideal to have the plywood setting upon the full width of your 2X joist the reality is it won't matter much if it's resting only on an edge. You'll have adhesive and screws holding it down.
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Unread 01-28-2021, 04:58 PM   #45
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subfloor concerns after sistering/between joist deflection

I'm finally done fixing the joists in my bathroom (originally 2x10 DFir/16OC/L416 deflecto), ended up double sistering each joist (the full length of room) with a 2x10 and a 2x6. I also added full height blocking midspan and at each wall. I don't know what the true new deflection is, I'm guessing somewhere between the original L/416 and the L/1249 I got by adjusting the thickness to 4.5".

I was going to go with 3/4" BCX plywood/membrane/tile but am now having some misgivings thanks to posts I've run into on here by CX and others indicating they don't tile over a single 3/4" plywood subfloor.

If I add a 1/2" underlayment as I've learned is optimal, I'll end up with a 7/8" transition between rooms (I had to raise the joist height in sistering).

It seems that large format tile is what is trending, and I just get a little queasy reading about between joist deflection causing failures...

Is there anything I can do to minimize deflection issues between the joists, aside from building up the floor with the second plywood layer? I was thinking that adding a couple more rows of blocking (flush with the joist tops) in between the 3 I just did would reduce the chance of any plywood deflection between joists, but I haven't seen that described anywhere on here.

Or am I overly concerned given the sistering I've done?

Thanks as always for your guidance.
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