Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 04-07-2008, 09:10 AM   #1
Eagle35152
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Mike's Basement Bathroom

Hello All;

My name is Mike and I'm new here. Though I have been browsing this site for some time now, this is my first post. What a great site! I'm finally ready to start the final basement project and this site has given me the confidence that I will be able to get through this much easier then I had originally thought. I'm going to try to document this project as much as I can. Here is my starting point (Sorry for the quality, but all I have available at the moment is the camera on my phone). The room is 8x10. I plan on using Kerdi on the shower walls. The drain is not centered so the Kerdi pan is not an option. The pile of stone in the attached photo is what i dug out of the hole that was left around the shower drain during rough in. They told me it was so I could move the pipe around a little if I need to (NOT!). I think I can actually use that to my advantage though when putting in the slope as part of it can be recessed below the floor grade. Unless one of you tells me I am way off base, this is my plan:

1. Shower stall will be about 36x54, greenboard covered with Kerdi and 12x12 Travertine (not too heavy for greenboard?).
2. Since the base is concrete, I will coat with thinset and drypack the bed with a 5-1 mortor mix. What is the minimum thickness needed for the bed as it slopes toward the drain? The area I am most concerned with is the the edges of the existing hole around the drain.
3. I think I read somewhere that with a concrete base and Kerdi, I only need to put in the sloping bed and do not need any mesh - is that correct?
4. Outside the shower I plan on putting down 12x12 floor tiles (still need to pick those out). There is a slight high spot on the floor at the expansion joint. I'm concerned that it is too high to install the tiles over and may cause them to crack. I also want to avoid any ridge lines. I considered using a leveler to try and spread it out, but I don't have too much room between the joint and the wall (with door jamb) and I think it will raise the height of the floor too much. My only other option is the dreaded grinding to remove the high spot

Any thoughts or words of wisdom you care to offer before I embark on this project will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for such a great site and invaluable resource!

Mike
Attached Images
 
Eagle35152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 04-07-2008, 09:44 AM   #2
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,274
Hi, Mike!

1) 12 x12 travertine isn't too heavy for your walls. If you don't have a local requirement from your building authority for greenboard, you can use regular sheetrock for your shower.

2) When bonding to concrete you can feather the deck mud to almost nothing.

3) Correct.

4) Remember that SLC can't be used to feather a high spot, it will flow and try to bring the entire floor up the the high spot. If the high spot is a small portion of the room, like yours seems to be, then it's better to knock the high spot down. An electric demo hammer or floor grinder will make short work of this problem.
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-07-2008, 05:35 PM   #3
Eagle35152
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Thanks Bob.

The gypsum greenboard was purchased with this project in mind quite a while ago. So I'm good to go there. I picked up a grinder, sealed off the room and got started with the 2nd nastiest job on the planet (the nastiest job is cleaning up all the dust the plastic WAS SUPPOSED TO CONTAIN! ARRRGH!!). Good thing the wife isn't home yet. Too bad she is due in any minute Unfortunately, I still have some grinding to go. To keep the dust to a minimum, I'm thinking about keeping it wet with a pump-up garden sprayer. Any thoughts on that?

As far as that hole around the shower drain - is packing that at the same time i form my slope ok? The hole is about 3" deep to the gravel. Thanks much.

Mike
Eagle35152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2008, 04:26 AM   #4
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,274
Keeping the concrete damp is OK, just plug your grinder into a GFCI. Packing the hole at the same time as placing the preslope is OK, too. If yuo need to, you could knock off the edges of the hole to get more clearance for your slope.
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2008, 08:07 PM   #5
Eagle35152
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Well, I finished the grinding today (What a Mess!). Keeping it wet helped but did not eliminate the dust issue. Tomorrow I get to clean the rest of the basement. The grinding helped a little but not as much as I'd hoped. My plan is to frame in the shower stall and then use some skim coat to flatten out the rest as much as possible.

Knocking off the edges of the hole is a great idea Bob. That will reduce the rise of the slope to less an inch or less.

I'll post another pic as soon as I have something more to show.

Mike
Eagle35152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2008, 08:28 PM   #6
Eagle35152
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
I've been a bit of a putz lately and haven't made too much progress on the project (stupid job doesn't help much either). I did get the slc down last weekend though. Tomorrow I pick up my Kerdi products. Reading through these threads has prompted a question though. The shower drain is not quite centered in the shower and would require tearing out some concrete to get it centered. The shower will be 36x54 and the drain is about 2x5 inches off center. I'm hoping that is not so much that it will significantly impact the slope. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help.

Mike
Eagle35152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-18-2008, 07:53 AM   #7
esobocinski
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 139
Functionally, an off-center drain isn't a problem. Having a slightly different slope on opposite sides of the drain will be completely trivial. Since your shower isn't square, you'll already have different floor slopes from the drain to the long walls than from the drain to the short walls. Nobody will notice that you have four different slopes rather than two, and the water will drain from all of them as long as the longest slope meets minimums.

The off-center drain is completely an aesthetic design question. Think about how the drain fits into your floor tile pattern and how you'd adjust. A lot of people won't ever notice, but as the craftsman, it's going to bother you if it doesn't look gorgeous. Keep yourself happy with how it looks and everyone else will be happy too.

I don't remember seeing what size shower floor tile you're planning to use, though I remember that you have 12x12 on the walls and outside on the floor. If you have a much smaller tile on the shower floor, you might be able to lay it as is, adjusting so that the drain is centered in either a tile or a joint intersection, and it won't be noticeable that there's an extra tile or piece of tile in one direction. If you're using 12x12 square to the walls, you'll be faced with a choice between lining up joints with the walls (which already is difficult to do well) and having the drain obviously offset in the center tile you'll be cutting up to maintain slopes, or centering the drain in the pattern and having an obvious offset on the edges and where grout lines meet between floor and wall. If your design vision allows it, consider setting the floor tile on a diagonal, regardless of tile size. That'll visually disconnect the position of the drain from the "square balance" of the shower walls.

In the end, only you can answer if it's worth all that work to move the drain to match the dream in your head, but the question is entirely artistic, not technical.
__________________
Eric Sobocinski
DIY Junkie
esobocinski is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-21-2008, 12:43 PM   #8
Eagle35152
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Thanks for the reply Eric. I personally don't think the drain is offset too much to be that noticable. As for the floor tiles, I'm planning to use 2x2's and with the available adjustments on the Kerdi drain, it should not be an issue lining up with the tile layout.

Mike
Eagle35152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2008, 07:49 AM   #9
esobocinski
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 139
Glad I could help. I agree that with 2x2, it won't be noticeable. Let us know how things turn out..
__________________
Eric Sobocinski
DIY Junkie
esobocinski is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2008, 05:10 PM   #10
Eagle35152
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
After thinking about the shower and offset drain, I realized I can fix some of the offset by putting in a ledge/footrest on one side of the shower. It will be about 8"deep so not enough to sit on, but will add a nice ledge for shampoo bottles, footrest, etc. The drain will still be a bit deeper then center, but only be a couple inches.

I found a local tile store that has Ditra-Set in stock so I picked up a couple bags and took back the stuff from HD since everyone said it wasn't good for nuthin'. Will the Ditra-Set work well for both putting up the Kerdi and putting my Travertine on the walls?

I noticed some hairline cracks in the SLC I put down on the floor about two weeks ago. There is no flaking or chipping, just some hard to see cracks. Will these cause an issue down the road or will the thinset keep it sound?

Thanks again for all your help

Mike
Eagle35152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2008, 09:16 AM   #11
esobocinski
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 139
Bump. I don't know enough about SLC problems to answer this.
__________________
Eric Sobocinski
DIY Junkie
esobocinski is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2008, 09:28 AM   #12
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,274
Ditra set is good to set the Kerdi to drywall and concrete, and good to set any tile onto Kerdi.

Do these SLC cracks line up with expansion or control joints in the slab?
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2008, 10:17 AM   #13
Eagle35152
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Thanks much for the response. The cracks look more like spider-web type cracks. I took a closer look at them and they appear to be only on the surface. Most likely some minor shrinkage during curing.

Mike
Eagle35152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-06-2008, 10:36 AM   #14
Eagle35152
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Well, it's been quite a while since last posting here. Between work and it being summer, my progress on the project has been a bit slow. But the good news is all the drywalling and electrical work is done and I'm ready to start the tiling. So, my first question is around the deck mud. I have a hole about 12"x15" (5" deep) in the concrete floor with the shower drain stubbed up. As you can see in the picture at the top of the thread, it has typical crushed stone at it's base. Is it ok to fill it with deck mud? Will that provide a sufficient base? I wouldn't want any settling of the stone (I've already tamped it down pretty solidly) to cause any cracking of the slope bed around the drain. If that will work, it will make it pretty easy to pack mud under the Kerdi drain flange as I work outward toward the walls of the hole.
__________________
Mike
Eagle35152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-06-2008, 12:12 PM   #15
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,274
If you are concerned, fill the hole with concrete mix. However, I think that deck mud will be fine. Coat the sides of the hole with a slurry of thinset to help the deck mud bond to the concrete slab.
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC