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Unread 03-07-2021, 12:58 PM   #1
txbrust
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No pvc liner for slab+curbless shower?

No matter how I search, I can't find any videos or tutorials that show professionals installing the pvc liner when building curbless shower pan for recessed slab. Is this right? Do I just install kerdi water proofing membrane on top of finished mud pan? Worth noting that there will be a bench on left side between shower and tub.
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Unread 03-07-2021, 01:05 PM   #2
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Undermount Tub Framing

There is SO LITTLE out there around undermount tub framing and installs. Hopeful for more luck here. The undermount tub will have quartz decking that extends into shower as a bench, so I'd like to build framing for both. Will extend into recessed area.

The tub manufacturer calls for mortar bed, not foam. Any input on how far the tub has to sit from the wall, advice on the framing esp into recessed area and shower bench incorporation, mortar bed install, etc would be GREATLY appreciated.

Similar application also attached below
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Unread 03-07-2021, 01:21 PM   #3
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Welcome, Brust.

I've combined your first two threads on this bathroom project here so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. A moderator can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one.

Tub manufacturer should have some framing requirements for the tub, but in general you simply frame whatever you want the surround to look like and leave an opening sufficient to fit the tub. How far from the wall? Far as you want it. If there is to be no shower associated with the tub, I recommend you leave sufficient room for the plumbing fixtures if they will be on a wall side and enough room for reasonably easy cleaning.

The only technical consideration is that the portion you plan to extend into the shower must be sloped a minimum of 1/4" per horizontal foot to the shower drain.

Yes, you would simply apply the Kerdi membrane to the entire inside of the shower, including the sloped shower floor and Kerdi drain. This would not include any traditional PVC shower receptor liner.

You've downloaded and read the Schluter Kerdi Installation Handbook from their website?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-07-2021, 03:54 PM   #4
jadnashua
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There are numerous shower build methods outlined in the industry bible, the TCNA Handbook. If you pick one and perform it properly, you’ll have a reliable shower.

Kerdi, and some others, is a topical, sheet membrane that meets the plumbing code requirement for a shower liner (when installed right, which is true of most any product you use). As CX said, download and read their installation manual, and watch some of their videos.

You might find that building the tub surround out of KerdiBoard may have some advantages as it’s waterproof, doesn’t warp or twist like lumber, and is easy to carry home and cut. If you haven’t priced lumber lately, you are in for a surprise...the prices have jumped radically.
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Unread 03-07-2021, 05:28 PM   #5
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When the tub manufacturer talks about a mortar install, they usually are referring to installing the tub into a bed of mortar rather than a bed of foam.

Both of those methods are used underneath bathtubs and I seriously doubt the tub manufacturer cares about the method you use to build your shower.

Tub framing: the last tub that I did as an undermount was framed about an inch bigger in every direction. This allowed for 1/2 inch of play all the way around and 1-inch of mortar underneath that the tub was set into.

Check your tub instructions for how yours is to be framed.

Like CX mentioned, the part of the tub that extends into the shower needs to be sloped towards the drain. So, if you extend it 12 inches into the shower then the shower portion needs to slope a minimum of 1/4 inch.

This means the slab installers will have to put a seam at the point where the slope starts. Maybe you are installing shower glass and this will cover most of the seam? or maybe not?

FYI, the only recognized curbless shower method uses a bonded waterproof membrane, like the Kerdi system, and not the traditional pan liner.

So, I would frame your tub/bench and then install the mortar bed for your Kerdi shower along with the Kerdi drain. The bench will have to be waterproofed before the slab guys template.
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Unread 03-08-2021, 11:36 AM   #6
txbrust
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Thanks to all 3 for your welcome and responses. This is exactly the guidance & "look here next" that I was needing. Glad i finally stopped reading as a viewer and signed up for this forum.

I'll go down the schluter black hole as I have found lots of great videos and instructionals from them. I hadn't thought about the slope with the slab. I'll have to figure out how to best go about that.

Thanks again
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Unread 03-08-2021, 08:41 PM   #7
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A few years ago I worked in an upstairs bathroom that had a large and heavy under mount tub. The weight adds up when you have two people and all that water. The builder added a steel I beam under the floor since there were no support walls under the tub.

What the others said about the seat. Make sure it has pitch and place the glass right over the seam.
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Unread 03-08-2021, 11:13 PM   #8
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The best way to create slope on a bench is at the framing stage. It takes a little more work than just slapping some lumber together, but it ensures that everything after that will have the proper slope.

I usually make bench seats a minimum of 14" deep, and about 20-22" high. Of course, that just general recommendations. It can be made any size to suit the users.
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Unread 03-24-2021, 03:10 PM   #9
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Same remodel, different question

Best approach when pipe insulation sticks out beyond studs?

Thanks!
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Unread 03-24-2021, 07:24 PM   #10
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Best approach when pipe insulation sticks out beyond studs?
The best approach in my opinion would be to have a competent plumber come and correct it. There are a couple different ways a competent plumber could fix that very quickly.

Alternatively, you could fir out the studs some but that may very well mess up your shower valve depth, depending on how much range that valve allows to come together correctly with the trim once tiled.

I would NOT use whatever you are putting on the walls to push it back, you would be asking for trouble doing that.
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Unread 03-24-2021, 07:28 PM   #11
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What Snets said. Or remove the insulation.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-24-2021, 08:34 PM   #12
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Thank you snets. I will go with your approach. The builder had forced sheetrock against the foam then backerboard over that. One of many WTH uncoverings. Plumber is coming tomorrow, I will ask them to move everything back so that I can keep insulation there. We had that <0° tx storm last month... don't want to put pipes to the test with no insulation
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Unread 03-25-2021, 04:02 AM   #13
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Brust, understand that moving pipes back in an exterior wall will increase the chance of freezing those supply lines. Up north here in Idaho, it would be a non-starter for that reason.

I'd likely insulate at least the supply stud bays with well fitted XPS foam board and fur the entire back wall out some.

I've never built in your climate so I'd need to research how the vapor drive would work with the foam which creates a vapor retarder itself. On second thought, I'd probably just fur it out and use the same insulation.

Looks like a Delta valve. As snets suggests, you'll want to be mindful of the depth to fit your situation, whatever that is. If it worked out right with 1/2" rock + 1/2" backer in prior installation and you intend 1/2" rock and Kerdi, it should theoretically be sunk back into wall 1/2"+/- and still be good.

Oh, and you'll want to slope the shower portion of the tub deck towards the drain, which will complicate you framing some.
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Unread 03-25-2021, 07:08 AM   #14
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Foam pipe insulation only works if it is installed correctly and covers 100% of the exposed pipe, including any angles. The adhesive used to stick the edges together is lousy and dries out over time, allowing the edges to open.

Is the wall framing 2X4? I'd want those pipes as close to the wall covering as possible so that they will receive radiant heat from the warm, room side and have as much insulation as possible behind them. Leave them where they are and remove the foam insulation or, if doing so will ease your mind, cut the foam tube in half so that it is behind the pipe but not in front. You might also consider removing the existing insulation in the stud bay(s) that contain piping and caulking the perimeter of the bay where the exterior sheathing contacts the wall framing. Doing so will reduce the chance of air circulation within the cavity. Then reinstall the insulation.

Your bigger challenge will be the shower valve since it appears to be deeper in the wall than those pipes.
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