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Unread 03-24-2012, 10:10 AM   #31
cx
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Welcome back, Greg.
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Originally Posted by Greg
I have an acrylic tile shower base
Gonna need to be much more specific there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg
Does the base go in directly on the subfloor?
Again, need to know the specifics of what you're installing. What does the manufacturer recommend?
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Originally Posted by Greg
Is Kerdi Ditra needed under the acrylic base?
Kerdi and Ditra are two different products of the Schluter company, Greg. Almost certainly you would not want either under a pre-formed shower receptor, but for what purpose were you thinking of using either?
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Should the base go in before the floor and wall tile?
Almost certainly, but, again, we need a lot more information.

For the other questions I think we'll need at least a photo of the area where you're installing this shower.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-24-2012, 10:36 AM   #32
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Here is the shower base:

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/V...180831/Cat/764

The instructions were not very clear to me. In talking with the plumbers, they said it should go down on the subfloor with drywall coming down onto the top edge. The waterproofing membrane then overlaps the top edge of the base and the tile goes on top of that. One of the walls on one side of it already has a plaster wall so I am going to cut the plaster out where the base will sit so the tile surface is at the right plane. Here is the installation sheet:

http://www.needplumbingsupplies.com/...19WHT3648L.pdf
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Unread 08-10-2012, 10:54 AM   #33
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I am back to working on the bathroom after many other projects intervened. The plan is to have tile on two of the walls, floor to ceiling. The tiles are different on each wall. The two tiled walls meet in the corner where the shower will be. I have an acrylic shower base and glass enclosure for the shower. I want to extend the tile beyond the glass enclosure to cover the whole wall.

One of the two walls will be new 5/8" drywall. I will use kerdi in the area where the shower will be. The tiles on one wall will be 3/4' square glass tiles. On the other wall, the tiles are smaller, about 5/8" square porcelain tiles.

Is it okay to end the kerdi about 6" outside where the shower glass walls will be and continue the tile? Will there be a noticeable change where the kerdi ends in tile height or in other words, will the wall look flat despite the transition from kerdi to no kerdi?

The one wall is old plaster which is solid but not exactly flat. How much variation in wall flatness is okay without being noticeable? Checking with a straightedge, I find some dips as much as 1/2 inch. That seems like way too much but I just wonder if there is a standard we should shoot for in filling and smoothing the wall prior to the kerdi and tile?

The ceiling presents another challenge. The ceiling in the corner where the two walls will meet is seriously off. The ceiling veers up in the corner over an inch. Using a straight edge along the top of each wall before the obvious rise in the last foot or so shows the ceiling line of each wall will not meet evenly in the corner. If I can patch the ceiling so that it looks reasonably straight, will it still look okay after the tile goes on? I am afraid that the horizontal grout lines will accentuate any problem at the ceiling.
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Unread 08-10-2012, 12:53 PM   #34
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Greg, those little tiles are gonna wanna follow every dip and hump in those walls. The customary requirement for flatness of the tiling substrate is no deviation from intended plane of more than 1/4" in any ten feet and no more than 1/16th" in any one foot. Since you'll be able to look at those walls from a very shallow angle, you're gonna want them to be flatter than that.

And any deviation from square or plumb is gonna show up as an extreme in those little tiles. You're gonna need to fix that ceiling such that it is both flat and level at all wall junctures (presuming your tile installation will be level) as close as you can measure it. What I see in that corner may float out using a setting-type drywall compound, but you might need to consider removing the ceiling, repairing the framing problem, and installing new sheetrock.

You may be able to tile past the end of your Kerdi onto the wallboard without much problem if the Kerdi has been installed very well at that edge. You gotta be careful if your glass tiles are at all translucent that you don't get a color variation at such changes of backing material. You wanna pay very, very close attention to the instructions from the tile manufacturer.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-10-2012, 04:00 PM   #35
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Well, you've confirmed all my fears. I think it may make sense to shim the ceiling and screw up new drywall into the ceiling joists. The existing ceiling is wet plaster on lath. There is loose rock wool insulation in the attic. I would rather not deal with that. Although I have been up in the attic prepping the space for R60 cellulose so if I had to drop the ceiling, now would be the time, before I put even more insulation up there.

Probably best to cover the whole wall with kerdi rather than take the chance that the color would show through. At least on the wall with the glass tile. It is the wall where the sink will be so it may be a good thing.

I just set my laser level up on a ladder and it looks like the major problem is isolated to half of one wall, which is shown in the picture above where the ceiling is sagging. We may be able to cut out the sagging portion. I will have to go up in the attic tomorrow and see what is going on. There is a section that is high and a section that is low, but it is limited to about 8 feet of wall-ceiling junction.

It will be nice when the questions I have relate to actual tiling and not just prep.
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Unread 08-10-2012, 04:08 PM   #36
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IMHO these little tiles fare well with Kerdi board. You can score and snap the corners, then - without scoring the top layer - set the scored edge into the inside corner to get a perfectly square joint. The corner will still need to be kerdi banded, but that is much easier to float out with thinset, maintaining the square corner.
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Unread 08-10-2012, 08:12 PM   #37
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And just what kind of unmodified thinset will you be setting these "glass" tiles on top of Kerdi?

Or VersaBond?
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Unread 08-10-2012, 09:21 PM   #38
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Paul-- I have begun reading about the Kerdi board. That looks like an interesting option. One wall does not have drywall yet. Could the Kerdi board be used instead of drywall? The other wall has old plaster on top of rock lath I think it is called. It is very solid but not at all flat. There is a door on that wall which would require removing the old trim if we add any significant thickness to it. Not impossible but extra work.

Kevin-- I haven't gotten that far yet. I am guessing from your question that unmodified and glass tiles do not go well together? What do you suggest? Thanks.
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Unread 08-10-2012, 09:44 PM   #39
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Well, there are the "rules" and there is real life. Actually I do very little glass tile of any kind, but do a lot of Kerdi. Glass requires specific types of thinnest as directed by the mfgr of the glass. Typically it's a modified to highly modified thinset. Schluter says only un-modified thinset.

So now you're dealing in gray areas.

I've used all laticrete modified thinsets 4XLT, 254, 253 and others with tiny mosaics like yours, let them set for a few days while I do other things, to give the cure a running start before grouting. So much edge area exposed which accelerates drying.

It's a crapshoot tho. No rules in that gray area. Just rolling the dice. Some here would say if the dice comes up even - your good, others say if the dice stay on the table your good. And others won't roll the dice on this one. Getting the idea? You're a bit on your own on this one.

Bet the balance of advice will say go for it. Let's see.
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Unread 08-11-2012, 06:14 AM   #40
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Greg,

We install a LOT of glass tiles, and since you're going off the grid and installing glass over kerdi and havng to break the non modified rule anyhow, I would;

Use versabond to band the kerdi and float the walls to as smooth, flat and lump free as possible. Use long straight edges to check your work.

Use 4XLT * or 254 to set the glass tiles. Once the walls are prepped, trowel on the thiset with a 1/8" square notched trowel, then flip the trowel over and flatten the ridges before setting the tiles.

* 4XLT would be my first choice as its creamier and easier to work with than 254 which can be very sticky and a PITA to work with for a novice DIYer. For some odd reason an image pops into my head of the first sheet of tile flying through the air along with a string of cuss words.
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Unread 08-11-2012, 09:32 AM   #41
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I think using a modified on this is OK as the tiles are so small and have so many grout joints that it shouldn't have a problem drying. I would vote for the 254 or similar, and mix small batches. The stuff is a nightmare to clean off your tools, hands, etc.

If you want to play it safe use 254 rapid and that should preserve your warranty from both Laticrete (thinset manufacturer) and Schluter.
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Unread 08-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #42
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Thanks for all the responses. We are getting closer. We have been leveling the floor and the walls. I decided to remove the plaster and wall board that was uneven and start with the bare studs on the wall.

We had previously put in a new subfloor on top of new sistered joists. The end result was not as flat as I had hoped. We used Henry's Feather finish to fill low spots. Using an 8' straight edge, we can just barely slide an 1/8 inch spacer in a few spots on the floor. We also set down three of the 17 x 26 inch tiles and slid them around to different positions. A couple spots we got a very slight rocking of 1/16 inch or less. Will that be flat enough?

On the wall framing, all gaps under an 8' straight edge are less than 1/8 inch.

I was originally planning drywall with kerdi over it for both wall surfaces. Now I am wondering if kerdiboard might be a better or easier option. The new wall framing for one of the walls ends at a chimney. That means that the wall board must span about 20", which is the width of the chimney, and fasten to the chimney in the corner where the shower will be.

Watching one of the kerdiboard videos, the installers make it look ridiculously easy to slap on 6 or so spots of mortar then tap the kerdiboard plumb with a level. That looks like a good way to attach to the chimney which is plaster on top of brick.

Price is a factor. What price can I expect to pay for kerdiboard vs drywall with kerdi? Obviously drywall is extremely cheap. Does anyone know of a good place to buy kerdiboard in the Detroit area?

Home Depot has ditra in stock although it does not show up on their website. I was seeing kerdi on their website but when I searched yesterday, I cannot find any Schluter products at all on their website.
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Unread 08-21-2012, 02:30 PM   #43
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HD does not list any Schluter products on there website, you have to go into the store to find it.

For general kerdiboard prices, look on amazon maybe.
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Unread 08-22-2012, 08:50 AM   #44
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Greg,

You're not gonna find Kerdiboard at any retail store. The 1/2" is available in 48x64" & 48x96". How many do you need? Expect to pay about $75 and $120 respectively. But a small amount will be more. You're better off buying regular wallboard and applying your own Kerdi fabric over it.

If you need an odd amount of Kerdi Membrane I might be able to help.

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Unread 08-22-2012, 11:07 AM   #45
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We are working to get everything flat and level. We got mixed results checking the ceiling line with a cheap laser level from Harbor Freight so we double checked with a water level that I have had for many years. I was afraid that we would have to re-drywall the ceiling but now it looks like we can redo a section of 6' x 2' in one corner and be good to go.

I was considering the kerdiboard because of Paul's recommendation and the ease of use. I believe Virginia Tile may sell it? I have not bought from them so I don't know how they are to buy from. I have Sherwin Williams giving me contractor pricing. I told them I am working on two houses and have two workers so I should qualify, which is all true.

I want to tile two walls needing about 150 square feet. The one gap is 20" from the last stud to the corner where the chimney is. I was planning to use 5/8" drywall to span the extra gap. I'm not sure if 1/2" kerdiboard would do it though I could use mortar on the chimney which would minimize the last span. The shower is in the corner so I don't need to waterproof the whole wall but I want continuous tile outside of the shower.

Assuming I can get decent results either way, drywall or kerdiboard, it is not worth spending a whole lot more for the kerdiboard. It looks like the kerdiboard is an extra $2 a square foot. Seems like too much.

Here is a photo that was an inspiration for what I am trying to do. Not exactly the same but similar. The tiles I chose I posted earlier.
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