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Old 08-06-2007, 08:35 AM   #1
wildthing
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tiling, then studding

Bathroom from Scratch in Basement
I'm a newcomer to this forum and a neophyte tiler and plumber. I just finished installing a caroma toilet and that wasn't so bad. However, painting and gutters are about all I've done on my own so far.

Q1 Wuz about to start studding here, then I started thinking about tiling the bathroom with the same tiles (some leftovers) as the main suite, but in advance of building the walls. Hmmm, what if I just tiled it 5 tiles wide and 8 tiles long...would that work if I put the walls on the other side of the tile job on the concrete? Save cutting tile for sure! Do you think it is wise to tile first, then build walls??

Q2 I was also thinking of putting in heating system in the mud under the tile. Or, I could just put in a heatlamp next to the shower. Any thoughts on this decision?
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Old 08-06-2007, 08:45 AM   #2
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Welcome, wildthing. Please give us a first name to use.

1. Do all the framing before any of the tiling.

2. Entirely up to the homeowner. Can be done either way. Or neither.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:29 AM   #3
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Tiling Shower to Replace Tub

Anyone put all these plastic layers down on the bathroom floor before they tiled the new shower stall? Like Fiasco, I'm doing a tiled floor. But going easy to clean on the shower walls with arborite. Before I put the tile down, the Home Depot guy tells me I should put this plastic layer, then quickset, then more waterproof quickset and then the tiles. I told him I was thinking of fibreglassing the new plywood I'm putting in to bring the tub area up to the other floor (it was lower due to the tub). He says that to come up to code you need this special layer to keep water out when the grout between the tile fails to be waterproof any longer. As tile will over time. Or if you get a cracked tile that will do it too.

Anyone had problems down the road with walking on these shower tiles and water draining out down below into the basement??
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:41 AM   #4
Brian in San Diego
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Wildthing,

You must have some way different codes up there in the Great White North! There is no code in the US regarding any type of waterproofing membrane on a bathroom floor. I suspect you may have fallen victim to the "expert in the aisle" syndrome. Get your supplies at HD, get your advice here.

You mention the shower stall, then the bathroom floor. Are you ripping out a tub and installing a shower? If so, then I think it would be prudent for you to read the shower construction thread in the Liberry. There are definite steps that need to be taken to building a mud bed shower floor. What pray tell is arborite?

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Old 08-08-2007, 07:58 AM   #5
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Wildthing, welcome to the forum.

I have merged your two threads about your bath into this thread. We like to keep everything about one project on one thread. Please post any future questions right here and we'll have all the info in one place.

Brian, arborite is similar to formica and generally only used on counters. So I'm a little confused about use in the shower here. Maybe a newer material they are manufacturing?
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:30 AM   #6
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Two Projects for two Bathrooms

Thank you Marge, for merging my posts. However, they are two quite different projects.

Basement Bathroom
Requires me to plan the layout, put in the wall studs, and then wire and plumb it before I put in the door. Since I have to plan the basement bathroom carefully for a 5x8' size, let me mull that over. This bathroom is simpler since I'm putting in a ready-made neoangle shower, macerating toilet (easy and trouble-free solution to raising effluant to a 6' outlet), and pedestal sink. I would tile the floor after putting up the walls. At least this plan sounds simple when you say it fast! I'm in the early stages of this project as it required removal of a 1940s boiler which was used for coal-fired hot water heat. See photo below...this was a project all in itself!

[IMG]images/boiler dismantled small.jpg[/IMG]

Replacing Bathtub with Shower in upstairs Bathroom
Okay, I'm working through the article on showers to replace bathtubs. I don't live in the great white north, but in British Columbia near the US border not too far from the Olympic Peninsula. We do have a civilized but prescriptive BC Building Code that requires a membrane be installed in a shower pan. Sentence 7.2.2.3.(1) requires that every shower receptor be constructed and arranged so that water cannot leak through the walls or floor. Right! There is also code to require non-permeable materials to suport the mortar for the shower pan. After much weeping and beating breast over wall and floor failures in bathrooms, you might want to do this part right.

I can buy a shower pan preformed with a sill for around $500 but I wanted to go with tile over a home-made sloped pan for a couple reasons:

1. My wife Sue has trouble with getting herself over the tub walls and would have the same difficulty with the sills that come with all the premade pans
2. Sue also notices the slope in the tub, so I'd like to minimize slope to the absolutely necessary to drain to RHS
3. I was hoping I could tile the entire bathroom floor with the same tile and continue it into the shower stall. There is the little problem with the shower draining properly which would require some slope in the tilework and a sill of some kind to prevent the water from heading towards the vanity! Maybe I could just slope the entire bathroom towards the drain
4. My response is to create a portable sill that is made of acrylic over plywood in a 4"x6"x59" shape that is hinged at the bottom but is latched up to sit at the left side of the shower enclosure behind the shower curtain which is pulled back. That way my wife could step easily into the shower, then drop the sill, pull the curtain and enjoy. Any thoughts on this plan???

There are four choices for shower walls around here:
1. laminate (I called it arborite) specially made for waterproof situations that is cheap and easy to clean with many choices $
2. acrylic panels that would replace the plastic currently above the tub and are quite easy to clean $$
3. synthetic marble made in a small shop down the road $$$$
4. tile which requires a waterproofed wall material to support it (not greenboard after reading the article in your liberry) and is riskier and hard to clean $$$$$

For my money, I'm leaning towards laminate but am having trouble getting sizes that are in one 72" height as they are mostly used above bathtubs. Anyone resolve that issue so you don't have to overlap two horizontal pieces?
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:04 AM   #7
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Sorry about the merge...it wasn't clear they were separate, especially only a day apart on dates.

This arborite for showers is really waterproof...something like a fiberglass wall then? Didn't know it was being made for showers. I have Canadian relatives with arborite counters. Hmm...
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:03 PM   #8
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All in one place is good

Marge, doesn't really matter as they have interesting intersections of work as in tiling and sink assembly. This waterproof laminate is quite good, and not quite as expensive as the acrylic solution.
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:52 AM   #9
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Jackhammered Concrete Pad, Found Rock

Next step, to remove the 4" concrete pad the old boiler was sitting on. That would allow me to fit the rest of the bathroom fixtures into the 5'x7' bathroom. Except, after Hilti application for 3 hours and the blunting of one carbide tip, we have rocks!

My friend suggested I dig out the gravel around the rocks to a depth of 2-3", lay concrete up to the rocks, and then use the rocks to install the tub as it would have to be built on a frame to get the drain working into the saniplus macerator. I liked that idea, but already took the hilti back, so I'm doing it with cold chisel and sledge by hand. Whew!

Now for design. I'm trying to fit a 60" tub (over the rock) in a 66" width bathroom and then put the tubsurround up the sides to complete the arrangement. That leaves the design looking a bit like the picture below. Many revisions to come.
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:18 AM   #10
wildthing
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Water Heater Busted

Had a hiatus, when I beat up the gneiss boulder below the concrete and my brother-in-law ended up cutting strips in it with his diamond blade. Pictures to come on this one. Finally, I sledge-hammered the remaining old concrete down to an inch below grade and bashed the strips of hard gneiss into submission. Then I poured in 4 sacks of ready-mix and let it harden. Three sacks of finishing cement later, it looks like a mess but it is fairly level. Just a little grinding to be done at the edges where it was already a bit uneven.

Now, for the cruncher. Just finished refinancing and the water heater has gone and is leaking. So, am planning to put in two on demand headers in a rack that can be used for upstairs and downstairs applications. Perhaps the downstairs one will even suffice for the hot water in the "shop" to be renovated from the garage 20 feet away.

Anyone ever use these 6.9 gpm heaters? They are said to be suitable for two hot water flow simultaneously, such as shower and sink or shower and washer.
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