Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-21-2006, 12:20 PM   #1
Skaggydog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9
Mixing sand with unsanded grout

I got a good deal on four 10lb. bags of Mapei Keracolor U polymer-modified unsanded Portland cement tile grout. It is recamended (by Mapei) for joints 1/16"-1/8". I would like to use it for 3/16" or maybe 1/4" joints by adding sand. The shade of color is not important. What kind and size of sand would I use and where do I find it? How much sand and how do I mix it?

Thank You
Skaggydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-21-2006, 01:03 PM   #2
Jason_Butler
Tile Setter
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,840
I wouldn't do it. Sanded grout is pretty inexpensive and much less of a risk than "mixing your own"

Jason
__________________
Good..Fast..Cheap. Pick any 2...can't have all three
Jason_Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 06:56 PM   #3
Skaggydog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_Butler
I wouldn't do it. Sanded grout is pretty inexpensive and much less of a risk than "mixing your own"

Jason
Well, I guess it's all about mind over matter...if I don't mind - it doesn't matter what answer I get.

While I appreciate your taking the time to answer my simpleminded question and give me knowledgeable advice, I am still foolish enough to ask for a more resourceful comment. Something a little more like, "put an equal amount by volume of #3 simple sand into a can with the grout and roll it. Simple sand can be purchased at any Sandbox Emporium, try to buy the white kind."
I am sure many tile setters make there own grout once in a while for one reason or an other. So, I am hopping for an answer from a more adventurous sole.

Thanks agin
Skaggydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 07:09 PM   #4
muskymike
Moderator -- Wisconsin Tile Man & Musky Guide
 
muskymike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Springbrook WI
Posts: 16,081
Send a message via Yahoo to muskymike
Hi there, gotta first name? I wouldn't do it either. Buy some sanded grout.
__________________
Musky Mike
Corrado Custom Tile
Kerdi Shower Specialist
Dreams are like tasting a little bit of the future today. Keep dreaming and it will come true.

New here? Check this out.

muskymike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 07:23 PM   #5
Jason_Butler
Tile Setter
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,840
Well Skaggy pardon me for not being adventurous. When I walk into a customer's home to do a professional job, I'm not trying to be adventurous. I'm trying to use the materials that have been proven to produce consistent and satisfactory results. Considering a bag of sanded grout is around 12 dollars, why should I take that risk?

I wouldn't recommend anything to any of the members/guests here that I wouldn't do for a customer. Sorry you don't like my answer, but we are not here to lead you down the wrong road.

Jason
__________________
Good..Fast..Cheap. Pick any 2...can't have all three
Jason_Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 07:35 PM   #6
DonB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,004
I have no idea where you could possibly find sand as fine as what comes in sanded grout. It's like powder.
DonB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 07:37 PM   #7
RLeVan
Registered User
 
RLeVan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Posts: 165
My first suggestion would be to call Mapei and ask, if what you want to do is even feasible. They would be able to tell you if the unsanded grout contains the same base (chemically-since it's polymer modified) as their sanded grout.

Most polymers rely on close contact to enhance their bonding characteristics. If the grout wasn't designed to have sand added, you may end up severely weakening the bonding strength of the grout. In essence, the sand forms a wall where the polymers expect to bond. In addition, you don't know how clean the fine sand is that you would add.

We're not telling you to throw the stuff away, just that we wouldn't stand behind a recomendation for converting unsanded to sanded grout without the manufacturers backing. There are so many different types of grout with different mixing schedules that anything we say is doomed to fail. Mapei may be able to give you a definitive answer on this.
__________________
-Rick-

"When I say your name, you say 'here.' And we will assume 'here' is short for 'here I am...rock you like a hurricane"
RLeVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 09:14 PM   #8
Chris the Rep
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 705
Not worth it.
Unsanded grout typically contains a silica flour instead of sand to act as filler and to give it "bulk" to help alleviate shrinking. The ratio of portland cement to silica flour is already proportioned; by adding sand, you throw off the mix ratio. Adding sand will call for more portland, add more portland and then you changed the ratio of portland to polymer. It's a viscous circle.

Calling Mapei will be fruitless. Why would they help you create a possible problem for them?

Chris (ex grout salesman)
Chris the Rep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006, 08:38 AM   #9
Skaggydog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9
Thank you very much Rick and Chris. You have convinced me of my error by explaining how the polymers work. I will use the grout as it was intended, in a smaller joint, and not try to modify it for a larger one.
Skaggydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006, 05:18 PM   #10
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 21,113
Thanks also to Jason. :)

Hi Skaggydog, welcome.
Before dismissing advice from a respected moderator, I invite you to to ponder this:
Through the years in the business working for myself and thousands of posts, I've learned that folks looking for answers want short answers, and not technical ones. Those same folks will engage into additional questions if they want to get into the "nuts and bolts" of it, and all are happy to oblige. Jason has helped thousands of people with their questions over the years and gladly volunteers his time to do it. He has been here helping to build this site since the beginning. He is like the rest of the pros and won't lead you down a road that might take hundreds, perhaps thousands of $$$$ to fix. If you aren't satisfied with the polite answer he gave you, fine. But please maintain the friendliness that this site is famous for.
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006, 06:03 PM   #11
Skaggydog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9
OK Tool Guy...

or Bubba, if I may. Yes, I am a cantankerous twit. Jason did give me a correct answer and I must apologize to him for being rude.


Thank You
Skaggydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2018, 02:56 PM   #12
Tile Everything
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1
Thanks for the help...

My wife enjoys googling various ideas I have. So here we are. After grouting a shower I have a quarter bag of left over non-sanded grout. So I figured I could add a little clean sand and mix up a small batch of sanded to grout a loose tile in the kitchen. It sounded like a good idea to me.

Not so to her. After a few questions which I couldn't definitively answer she whipped out her phone. Ok, it was a bad idea Sweetheart.

Thank you forum for the good advice. I'll buy sanded grout.
__________________
Steven
Tile Everything is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2018, 04:39 PM   #13
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 21,113
That's good.

But you probably don't wanna Google or ask about the loose tile 'cause you're gonna see that tile doesn't just come loose for no reason. There's almost always something bigger going on.


Sorry.

Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2018, 07:40 AM   #14
MAPEI - Technical Service
Company Representative
 
MAPEI - Technical Service's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 951
Luckily it seems like you've already resolved your question before I saw it. As others have mentioned, unsanded grout already has a similar amount of filler in it compared to sanded grout, it's just much finer so it can fit in narrower joints. Adding raw sand will cut the amount of active ingredients (cement and polymer) by a significant amount and you could end up with soft grout and exposed sand grains. It's a good thought, but there are better ways to save some money.
__________________
Holden

http://www.mapei.com/US-EN/
MAPEI Product Tech Support Hotline 1-800-992-6273
MAPEI - Technical Service is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2018, 09:30 PM   #15
rosten736
vintagetile sacramento
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 15
unsanded grout

Well I was in India a few years back and they ONLY sell unsanded grout there. Just got some fine grain sand and mixed it and it worked out fine. Sorry but don't remember the proportions. Think I just kept adding until it looked ok.
__________________
Andy

https://vintagetile.weebly.com/
rosten736 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:05 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC