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Old 04-02-2018, 11:57 AM   #16
ZZZK
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1.) That depends on how you plan to build the shower. Are you going to user a vinyl liner or a direct bonded membrane? If doing a direct bonded membrane you can put up your wall board now and you won't need any blocking. If you do a liner you will need your blocking, furring the studs or notching the bottom for the liner etc.

2.) You can build the curb now. You are better off using bricks/blocks rather than 2x4's when on a concrete slab. With 2x4 you always have the worry about drawing moisture from the slab into the wood.

3.) That depends on the condition of the old drain and the type of shower receptor/water proofing system you plan on building. Always best to get a new drain while you're in there now.

4.) Not sure what you are describing but you will need a way to transition your wall board to the drywall. Perhaps a picture illustrating your question?

5.) Yes you need to create a straight edge for your transition. I find it easiest to freehand this using an oscillating tool in one hand and a vacuum in the other (after drawing in a straight line of where you want your cut). With a steady hand you can get a very clean and straight line.

6.) That is up to you. I have used the Hydroban foam niches and thought they were great. The only gotcha is the flange is spaced for true 1/2" wall board so if you use more common wall boards that are 7/16" (such as wonderboard lite) you'll need to do some shimming.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:34 PM   #17
Steve in Land O Lakes
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Thanks for the "Reply" John...

I will read your thoughts more than once

Especially helpful were your response to #'s 5 & 6 as I am planning on using Wonderboard light.

Your response to number 1 leaves me with another question: I was planning on the Vinyl liner (still am), but I was also going to paint in some waterproofing on most everything above the bed as well. I want a Niche (or two) I was thinking Redgard that; and thought I would paint the membrane on the corners and seams etc.

Your response to number 1 makes me think you're suggesting don't use Redgard with the Vinyl liner in the Pan?
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Old 04-02-2018, 01:13 PM   #18
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Steve, you don't want to create a moisture sandwich by having moisture in the mud be trapped between the vinyl liner on one side and the Redgard on the other. How will moisture get into the mud bed? #1 no good way to tie the strainer to the Redgard (there is almost no surface area available for this). #2 weep holes in the threaded strainer neck and in the clamping drain assembly are all a direct path for moisture to migrate in and out of the mud bed especially if the drain ever gets slow allowing a build up of hydrostatic pressure.

If you want to use a direct bonded membrane then I would just go ahead and build a direct bonded shower pan which means: Forget about a preslope. Forget about blocking and notching studs. Forget about having to build a fat mud and lath curb. No reason to try to do some kind of hybrid.

Anyway this means you will need to either buy a bonding flange drain (preferred method) OR do the divot method:

See: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...0&postcount=16
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Old 04-02-2018, 02:03 PM   #19
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A curb for a bonded membrane shower construction can be made of various things:
- bricks or pavers
- foam
- foam board
- wood covered with a suitable tileable substrate (what's acceptable depends on the membrane you choose)
- concrete

It gives you a lot of flexibility. The drain must support direct bonding. Installing a membrane is similar to putting up wallpaper, except you overlap the seams rather then butt them (well, you can butt them, but you then need to cover that seam with a seaming tape - this usually ends up thinner than overlapping since the seaming tape is thinner than the main membrane).

With a couple of them, they've been certified to install over drywall, which is easier to install, cheaper, and generally available in larger sheets. Think of that sort of like the drywall on the ceiling underneath your roof...it works because there's a waterproof membrane above it. Otherwise, drywall in a shower is not generally very reliable.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:25 PM   #20
Steve in Land O Lakes
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Update

So the flange (embedded in the foundation slab) sealed with what appears to be a toilet wax ring, and clamped down using three bolts (where there should have been four)...

I used an inside pvc cutter to take the top half of the flange off. What was inside was confusing. The flange bottom was slipped over a piece of two inch pipe. The confusing part is that the 2" pipe didn't connect to the P trap; it was only about 2.5 inches long. feeling around with my finger the pipe was connected somehow to a much wider pipe. Flashlight showed the wide pipe ran down into a reducer which connected to the curve in the P trap.

So the only way to avoid having to break out a large portion of the foundation to get at the large pipe and or change out from the P trap is to use an internal 2" coupling.

I will have to measure and calculate how much to trim off the Botton of the coupling to set into the 2" piece in the foundation. Then calculate how much of new 2" pipe to slip over the top end of the internal coupler so as to have the bottom of the new drain flange sitting at 1" above the foundation so it can accommodate the pre-slope dry pack.

It would have been nice if something was done up to par, but I guess it could be worse.

Tomorrow I will attempt to set the new drain's flange using the method describe above. That is unless soon chimes in with an idea that sounds better

Pic's show the piece of Bottom flange that I cut off (paper towel in the middle of the piece because everything was coved in that disgusting yellow waxy substance), the remaining piece of the bottom flange which is still glued onto the length of 2" pipe which sits on top of the much wider pipe that gets reduced and ends up inserted into the P trap, the pic with the black caliper points to the short length of 2" pipe still below the top of the foundation...
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:37 PM   #21
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What you did is cut a three piece clamping drain in two.

Do you have a new one yet? Get a new one and study on it for a bit. You'll need one for your new pan and liner that'll be going in.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:39 PM   #22
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Step back just a bit and take another shot of the drain area. Is there a difference in the makeup of the concrete directly around the drain area from the rest of the slab?
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:41 PM   #23
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Is your drain deep down there a black pipe? Like ABS? Or is it galvanized steel pipe? Or is it cast iron? Doesn't really look like PVC.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
So the only way to avoid having to break out a large portion of the foundation to get at the large pipe and or change out from the P trap is to use an internal 2" coupling.
Hi Steve,

I haven't been following your thread, so perhaps I am missing something. But the drain would typically just be in an approximately 4" thick slab, not a large foundation element. In which case I encourage you to break out a little bit more of the slab so you can extract the segment of oversized riser pipe.

If the existing PVC P-trap is 2" and in good condition, you can reuse it by reaming out the socket end at the top of the P-trap using a tool such as the rambit. That way you'd only need a 3" to 4" hole in the slab to extract the oversized pipe segment. Then you'd just need to glue in a new 2" riser, fill the void under the slab with some appropriate material, and make a small patch to your slab.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:55 AM   #25
Steve in Land O Lakes
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responses

Thanks for taking time to respond...
-the pipe is all PVC
-the slab is not different pours it is all one piece
-I will be figuring the length needed to set the flange above the slab and trying to install the internal coupler into the small length of pvc 2" pipe coming up into the foundation slab.

meanwhile still have to put in some wood blocking between studs...
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:09 AM   #26
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a few questions if those that know have a minute or two?

1) if the bottom of the new drain flange sits 1.5" off the foundation slab, is that to high for the pre slope or must the pre slope dry pack be 1 inch or less? The repair and set up of the new drain has the flange 1.5" off the slab and it's level and secure I hate like heck to try to cut it down if I don't need to?...

2) can I mix mortar in a tough storage bin (rather than a $50 mortar mixing tub)? I only want two mixes (pre slope and then final dry pack) out the container then I would dispose of it?

3) the pre slope dry pack (if I make it 1.5" thick at the drain) will take about three bags of sand topping mix do I have to mix this all at once or can I mix, pack and then repeat?

4) I am working with the water on and the mixing valve off (obviously). At what point would you have the new shower head arm, head and the new mixing valve installed?

Thanks...
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:37 AM   #27
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Also not been following your thread, Steve, and I can't tell from your photos or description what you might/might not have as a drain arrangement. Temper my response with that information.

1. Deck mud wants to be a minimum of 3/4" thick. There are theoretical limits to the maximum thickness, but in a shower floor pre-slope you needn't concern yourself with that.

2. You can mix your mortar in anything you want. I recommend using 5 gallon buckets with a Bucket Mortar Mixer for your application.

3. So long as you're fast enough you can mix separate batches on continue with your placement. That's part of the reason for the mixer in #2. You can mix it all dry and add water and finish mixing as necessary.

4. Don't understand the question. You clearly want the new plumbing in before you close up the walls and I'd wanna be done with all plumbing before I started working on a shower floor.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:04 PM   #28
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update

Finished building curb core. three 2x4's, anchored bottom in the slab with 6 long hammer in concrete anchors. Screwed number two to the bottom with 8 coated long screws and then the same for the top board into the middle.

I blocked off the space between studs taking care to keep the wall front as flat as I could.

The drain is what it is. Builder made it tougher than it need be, that's for sure. But It ended up sound and level. The negative is the bottom flange is sitting up 1.5" off the slab. A bit higher than I would like; but I am not going to risk cracking the pipes below the foundation.

Pics, tomorrow...
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Old 04-07-2018, 04:45 PM   #29
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Smile update, the pre-pitch is in and drying...

Mixed and installed a pre pitch, it's drying now. Will do the liner and final dry pack in a couple of days...
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:00 PM   #30
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If you still plan on using cement board on the walls, I would notch the studs about 1/8 from the plywood floor up about 10 inches. That's so the pan liner will recess back enough to not cause the cement board to bulge out. The wood blocking you have between the studs is usually set back even with the notched area. If they stick out past the notched area, a couple whacks with a hammer will usually push them back.
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