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Unread 12-14-2018, 06:35 PM   #1
Mikeztec
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Shower slope not correct

Hi - I'm a homeowner who decided to remodel one of our showers. I'll get right to the my issue. I am at the point where I tiled my shower floor. I did a preslope, pvc membrane on top of that, final slope and then Redgard (3 coats) on top of that as well as everywhere else. I then used versabond thinset to lay the tile.

The preslope and slope were created using a mixture of sand mix and mortar mix (approximately 4 parts sand to one part mortar mix).

My slope is approximately 1/4 inch per foot. My problem is that one of the sheets of 2x2 tile is very close to being level/no slope. It is the sheet furthest away from the drain in upper right corner of image I have provided.

Is this as big a deal as I've read? I've half convinced my wife that if we do end up with standing water we can squeege it towards the middle of the shower floor where there is no issue with the slope? I've also considered removing that particular sheet of tile and trying to remedy that way. It's my thought that this type of fix would probably compromise the redgard barrier and the integrity of the job so far. Along with measuring my slope, I have used a golf ball to confirm slope works in other areas of shower floor.

I'm not sure if I should tear out the floor and start over again or live with the possibility that water may puddle there after each shower requiring a quick squeege?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks - Mike
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Unread 12-14-2018, 07:02 PM   #2
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As long as you’ve got some slope, I’d be tempted to leave it alone.

The double membrane (pvc liner and redgard) is considered a bad idea. If the redgard was properly applied and is a continuous membrane over the walls, pan and curb, there’s no need for the pvc liner as no water should ever penetrate to that point.

If the redgard isn’t continuous - or if water somehow finds its way past it - the liner will stop it (assuming it was installed correctly), but now you’ve trapped water between the liner and redgard with no easy way of dissipating...recipe for stagnant water.
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Unread 12-14-2018, 07:07 PM   #3
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Mike, you'll have to make that call. There was no reason for the Redgard over the mud, more isn't better in this case. The water will get past the Redgard at the drain since you can't effectively seal it tight there. Then it has a hard time drying out.
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Unread 12-14-2018, 08:35 PM   #4
evan1968
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PVC liner and RedGard together on the floor. Not good.
Curious, where did the RedGard and PVC advice come from?
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Unread 12-14-2018, 08:59 PM   #5
Mikeztec
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Thanks for the replies guys. S#@t! I read about the mold sandwich issue as far as putting plastic sheeting behind the hardiebacker board and then redgarding the walls so I did not do that. Never occurred to me to apply same principle to the floor...

Someone on YouTube covered the floor bed in redgard. I assumed he had a pvc liner below his mudbed.

I've attached two more pics that show what I did to get to this point. This info is obviously pulling me in the direction of starting over. The $ involved is not really the issue, it's my time invested to get to this point

You all would do what at this juncture? Thx
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Unread 12-14-2018, 09:17 PM   #6
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Welcome, Mike.

Appears to me that you might well be able to correct your problems by simply removing the shower floor tile and final mud bed and just doing that part over with a correct slope this time. You should be able to remove that mud bed without damaging the pan liner if you're careful.

If your pre-slope was correctly sloped, all your final mud bed needs is to be of a consistent thickness of at least 1 1/2 inches.

Also looks like another coat of RedGard on those walls wouldn't hurt at all. But not the floor this time, eh?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-14-2018, 09:30 PM   #7
makethatkerdistick
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CX gives great advice.

In your first post, in the second picture to the bottom right it looks like the tile closest to the wall drops some just to rise again to the left, forming a channel. Is that an optical illusion?

To verify actual pooling, you could spray it with water and see how much actually remains on the floor and doesn't drain. Probably hard to say if it isn't grouted yet. The empty joints might carry away water that would remain in the pan once the grout is in.

If any amount really pools, it would bother me personally. I would tear out the mud bed and do another one on top of your liner. You'll lose another day or two, but that's time well spent for the long run.

On the upside, it seems like you've done a lot right on this shower! The pan liner looks great and the preslope is there! That's a feature not too many traditional showers have
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Unread 12-14-2018, 11:00 PM   #8
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You appear to have most of it done correctly. It would be a shame not to fix this one thing that would cause your shower not to drain properly. I know for me it would be something that would bother me forever if the floor had birdbaths.
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Unread 12-15-2018, 02:14 AM   #9
jadnashua
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Whenever applying a liquid waterproofing, it's a really good idea to use a wet film thickness gauge. Then, and only then, will you know you've achieved the proper thickness. You can get an idea afterwards by measuring the area and then how much material you've used, but you still won't know if it was evenly applied. With liquid applied membranes, more is not necessarily better. A diluted primer coat and then two full-strength, proper thickness coats are generally called for. That primer coat is pretty much required with HardieBacker, and probably not a bad idea for some of the other brands as well.
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Unread 12-15-2018, 09:13 AM   #10
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I will be removing tile and final mud bed and redoing. As far as not damaging PVC liner or anything else, any advice on how best to remove the final mud bed? Figuring removing the tile is fairly straightforward. However, I'm thinking the mud bed may require some heavy hammering? Should I start near the drain?

Thanks a ton for the input guys. Mike
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Unread 12-15-2018, 10:54 AM   #11
Lou_MA
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Mike - how is the curb constructed over the liner? Metal lath that’s friction fit, plus fat mud? Or backer board fastened to the sides and top? Trying to figure out if you’ve got any fastener penetrations through the top or inside face of curb.
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Unread 12-15-2018, 12:01 PM   #12
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My next question was the same as Lou's. How was the curb built? If you end up doing the curb over and want to go the extra mile, put a pitch on the top curb 2x4. That will give the liner a slope on the top of the curb. I rip my 2x4 down but you can shim it up on the outside and accomplish the same thing.

I would start busting the mud in the corner and work towards the drain.
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Unread 12-15-2018, 12:54 PM   #13
Mikeztec
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I used 2X4's for the curb and I did use a shim to put a pitch on it. Yes, there are 3 penetrations (screws) on the top and on the inside of the curb. The screwheads were covered/filled with 100% silicone then thinset and finally the redgard. I do understand now that is not the ideal setup😞.

Before I lose you guys today, thx for taking time out of your Saturday to help me with this, any tips on the best way to remove final mud bed with the least disturbance to the rest of the project.
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Unread 12-15-2018, 01:01 PM   #14
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A couple solid whacks with a hammer should crack the mud bed and allow you to (gently) pry up a piece of two. No need to go Incredible Hulk with the hammer though.

Once you get started, additional hammer blows should break it up fairly easy.

Go slow and try to be 100% sure that you haven’t nicked the liner.
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Unread 12-15-2018, 02:07 PM   #15
Mikeztec
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Great, thanks all
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