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Unread 08-02-2004, 10:54 AM   #1
beat
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Question (poll) redgard as membrane

Hello all,
Just wanted to see if anyone out there would trust it for a 3'x3' shower space. Notice I didn't say reccommend it...just trust it. I think I know what the concensus will say but I was wondering if anyone has ever had luck with the stuff.
thanks, Beat
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Unread 08-02-2004, 11:00 AM   #2
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Hi Beat, you're right it's not my first choice but sure I trust it if it's perfectly done. I fiberglass tape all inside & outside corners, then thinset these, then 2 or 3 coats of Red Guard including well brushed into the corners. If you get complete coverage & a thick enough layer I think it works great.
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Unread 08-02-2004, 11:52 AM   #3
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Excuse my innocence, but why would you do this?

Three coats of Red Gard is going to cost as much or more than the PVC liner for the space. Then you need to put fiberglass around the drain so it can clamp to something. Then you risk not getting a perfect coating and having a leak. Is there some advantage that I am missing.

I do not mean to be facetious; but, I read Custom's instructions for a Red Gard pan and I am wondering if I am missing an advantage I don't see.

Gene
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Unread 08-02-2004, 12:01 PM   #4
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Gene you are 100% right. When I saw beat's post for some reason I was thinking just walls, like I use it once in a blue moon. But he didn't say walls! Beat did you mean for a shower pan? Then Gene's right. While it is approved for a pan by IPMO & it's manufacturer, there really doesn't seem to be much advantage unless you have such a massively cut-up & curved wall pan that a liner would be very tough. I've never done a Red Guard pan myself.
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Unread 08-02-2004, 12:51 PM   #5
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Yes guys,
I did mean for the pan. I didn't want to get into details just to see what people's reactions were to see if they trusted it for a floor application in general or not. Sorry, I should have been a little more specific. I may as well spill the beans now. The reason I am even considering it is that there is an L shaped floor plan where one of the legs of the L is about 7 inches across by 15 inches or so and that leg has an inward corner of its own. So because of those two inward facing corners and that I have to use the redgard over an existing plywood bench anyway (that is not negotiating with me on its removal )is why I am considering it. a sheet membrane is not totally out of the question...just sort of a pain due to the corners and since I was going to redgard the plywood area anyway so I thought I could just continue it down and across the smallish floor which is 2.5'x3'

thanks , Beat

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Unread 08-02-2004, 05:56 PM   #6
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Beat,

I'm like Tom. I've never done it, but I think it works if you do everything right. Tileguytodd has done it more that once with a similar product. If he doesn't find this thread, shoot him a PM.
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Unread 08-05-2004, 07:09 AM   #7
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Beat emailed me for information regarding this method.Hang tite beat, I am off to work(finishing a shower that was done with this exact method) I'll post the information here this evening for you on specifics.Like was said,its not the prefered method,there are times when it is a valuable tool however .
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Unread 08-05-2004, 07:12 PM   #8
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Ok, here we go.First off, like any Shower floor construction method a Preslope is imperative.Do your preslope,install your CBU leaving a 1/8" gap at the base.Install your curb durock etc. trowel enough redgaurd around entire perimeter to pack the gap where the CBU and floor come together.Use fiberglass Cloth (not tape) Or Kerdiband (the kerdiband is thinner and easier to featherout and i would reccomend this over the fiberglass cloth)to imbed into the initial troweled redgaurd.Trowel a thin layer over this and then Using a throw away 2 or 3" Brush, paint the membrane along the walls above the cloth 8-10".Trowel redgaurd over the bottom section of the drain and imbed kerdi into this.add enough material to surround the drain by 10" aprox.Trowel a thin coat over this.trowel the remainder of the shower floor.Paint a coat of Redgaurd over the entire curb area (the outside corners should already have been taped and thinsetted and allowed to dry as well as the inside corners of the jamb.)imbed Kerdi at the inside corners of the jamb and trowel a thin coat over this.The kerdi should run up the jamb 3-4".Now ,wrap the remainder of the curb in Kerdi and press into the redgaurd with your flat trowel.This should overlap the Kerdi on the inside of the shower.Flat trowel a thin layer of redgaurd over this. Allow this to dry completly(this may take up to 48 hours) Now give the entire area a second coat of Redgaurd. Allow this to dry completly.
Your pan is complete when this is totally dry.Using a good Modified thinset,feather the area's out 12" above the pan layer and allow this to dry.(you can begin setting tile above this if you want to or you can set immediatly from the bottom up if you take care how you trowel and comb over the feathered area.(for a first timer i would highly reccomend allowing the featherd area to dry completly and then tile as normal.

Thats it, it is time consuming and takes much longer than a traditional installation which is why it is not a preffered method.It has advantages for odd shapes etc. and is not a big deal if you have other work you can be doing while all the steps are done. If you have any other specific Questions, feel free to ask them here
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Unread 08-05-2004, 11:14 PM   #9
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Wow!
that does sound time consuming. For my application it may be a good bet still. It seems like it boils down to just being extremely thorough and not rushing through it. I was planning on putting one more layer of mortar bed on top of it, is that Ok?
thanks again Todd, you rock!
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Unread 08-06-2004, 01:26 PM   #10
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I'm sorry Beat, I assumed and should never do that.
Yes, the pan is like any other in that it gets the preslope, the membrane(which is what i refered to as the Pan).And then a final slope of deckmud and drain adjustment.If you set wall tile from the bottom up before doing your final slope,(an old tilers trick from back even before Johns time and thats almost as old as dirt ) you can use the bottom of the tiles as a guide for keeping your deck mud nice and level around the perimeter.Protect that pan at all costs while doing so.(Hint-I use a piece of carpet pad which i find plentiful and cut it to fit in Keeping it about 3" from the walls.
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Unread 08-06-2004, 01:36 PM   #11
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Cool T,
I just wanted to make sure. Thanks for the carpet pad tip..good thinkin
have a good one,
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Unread 10-18-2004, 09:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tileguytodd
I'm sorry Beat, I assumed and should never do that.
Yes, the pan is like any other in that it gets the preslope, the membrane(which is what i refered to as the Pan).And then a final slope of deckmud and drain adjustment.If you set wall tile from the bottom up before doing your final slope,(an old tilers trick from back even before Johns time and thats almost as old as dirt ) you can use the bottom of the tiles as a guide for keeping your deck mud nice and level around the perimeter.Protect that pan at all costs while doing so.(Hint-I use a piece of carpet pad which i find plentiful and cut it to fit in Keeping it about 3" from the walls.
Hello agian,
so Todd, For the walls, it sounds like it is ok to put thinset directly over the redgard and then tile away?
Thanks, beat
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Unread 10-18-2004, 10:17 AM   #13
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Indubitably my good man,indubitably

Tile On!!
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Unread 10-18-2004, 11:03 AM   #14
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SWEET!!!
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