curbless shower (or almost curbless)

[Apt4C]

CX, thanks for clarification. I understand.

How can I conceal waterproofing coming up the wall if I don't want to use baseboard? From what I know, it should come up 4" - 6", or?

[elizasquid]

a ductless fan is only go into serve to push moisture into the attic space or void directly above your bathroom. all the apartments i have worked in or on have their individual vent fans ducted all the way out to an exterior wall. if you live on the top floor of your apt building, you should have an attic above you, and ducting of fan outside would be no problem and relatively inexpensive. however, if you have any tenants above you, most likely, you will not be able to duct a fan out and if you try to go without ducting, you will simply push moisture directly into the void above you, causing all sorts of terrible problems, such as: mold, sheetrock ceiling failure, more mold, rotting of wood floors above you, you get the picture.

if you can gain access to it, you may be able to tie into your dryer vent duct, since you almost certainly will have one of those.

Isaac, the hubby (electrician)

[Houston Remodeler]

Baseboards serve the purpose of protecting the sheetrock from mops and vacuums mostly. If there is a liquid spill, the baseboard will help protect as well. The baseboard also covers the expansion joint between the floor and the wall.

If you want to go baseboard less, the drywall should set atop the flooring. I just completed a new home construction where this was done. Keeping the tile protected was a major effort.

[Apt4C]

Isaac, thanks for the reply.

From what you say and from other conversations I had on the subject, it looks impossible. I have upstairs neighbors and there is no way I can do anything to the building exterior. And there is no dryer, let alone dryer vent. So there is nowhere to vent. It is almost metaphorical. So no fan for me in this 'greatest, most advanced world metropolis' (NYC). Instead, I will have to come up with an appropriately 'advanced' solution like opening that window, wiping the walls or something...

Thanks anyway. At least your advice made me completely rule out the next 'best' thing -- a ductless fan. it really seems not be worth even these 25 bucks. Thank you, from me and my neighbors.

I am still trying to resolve the tiled floor to un-tiled wall transition. It is not really an aesthetic problem, I am clear about what I am trying to achieve aesthetically. It is the question of waterproofing that needs to be resolved. Here is what I came up with (see drawings).

Does anybody know another (easy) way to solve this?

Also, I am skeptical about painting over RedGard/Laticrete. There is a post on this forum where the guy says the paint over RedGard split in about a month but this was directly in his shower and under old leaky/rotting window frame as far as i remeber... looks like he was just trying to mitigate an existing bad situation...

Any feedback/ideas will be greatly appreciated. I know, it looks like it would be much more practical to just go with a (much hated) baseboard but devil is in the details

[Apt4C]

Hi Paul,
Thanks so much for no baseboard advice. So there is hope!

Can you please be more specific about how to go about this. I don't really mind all the work as long as I am comfortable with the type of task to be undertaken. Plaster, for example, is not my forte, I am not very good with 'wet' trades at all but can deal with anything 'dry' and precise. But I'll even plaster if necessary it'll just take loooooong time to get it right.

Looks like my drawings to achieve the baseboardlessness are off the mark. How do I waterproof wall on top of tile?

Thanks once again.

[Houston Remodeler]

To achieve water proofness we ran kerdi from under the tile up onto the wall studs and stapled the tippy top of the kerdi to the studs. The bottom of the kerdi was thinsetted to the ditra as per normal installation. We ran plywood blocking between the studs to prevent the kerdi from sagging between the wall studs. The tile was laid to within 1/4" of the wall studs.

In our case, there was a baseboard, but it is flush with the surface of the drywall, with a 1/4" rabbited reveal at the top of the baseboard to the bottom of the drywall. Since the tile is dead flat level, the baseboards went in quite easily. The drywall was set atop that. In your case the drywall would be set over the tile. You'll need to come up with some way to make the bottom edge and back side bottom and outside bottom of the drywall waterproof. I am still thinking about how you'll accomplish that feat. Drywall doesn't do well with dampness or water. That thin space between the bottom of the drywall and the top of the tile will act in a capillary manner and suck in nearby water, say when mopping.

[Apt4C]

Hi Paul,
Thanks for the answer. I get it. it is certainly a lot of trouble but as i said devil is in the detail...

Why do you think it wouldn't be good for me to use the same method?
What was the baseboard made of?
Was it waterproof(ed)?

I understand what you say about the capillary action / water being sucked into the space between floor and wall. How did you prevent this with your flush baseboard method?

Can I caulk into that thin sopace and/or use Schluter Dilex (there are some real thin profiles I could live with, like Dilex Ecke)?

If not, can I use cement board instead? I know, I will die doing the joints and prepping it smooth for paint but at least it will hold up to water better than sheetrock...

Thanks again, Paul. You have no idea how much I appreciate your feedback.

[Houston Remodeler]

To get nice, pretty baseboards we used clear poplar lumber, milled to size. Before installation it was oil base primed on all sides. Painted with oil based paint one face, caulked to the floor with latex caulk. While this doesn't make it water proof, it does repel a lot of the trouble from happening and it can take a hit or two without folding like a wet paper bag drywall

Cement board / CBU will work but you'll be floating that with classic wall plaster ? Any of those guys left alive? I think in NYC you can find a few.

[cx]

Have one house out there that's twenty-something years old, Tom, all Saltillo tile, no baseboard anywhere in the house except a couple loft areas that are carpeted.

They've lived with it all these years that way. No complaints. I see these folks regularly and have remodeled in that house several times.

Just a matter of lifestyle, I suppose, but I can testify that it can be done.

The sheetrock went in first in that case, was textured and painted at least a first coat before we set the Saltillo. Strictly an aesthetic decision; they didn't want baseboard.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[Apt4C]

huh, that sounds complicated and expensive. lot of trouble for it not being waterproof, just water repellent... but i am sure it is going to work just fine and i am sure some other less conscious contractors would label this waterproof without hesitation. looks like you are doing very fine work out there. not like schlock work here in NYC where the standard is to paint right over electrical outlets and if not, it is charged extra as 'high end work'. you get the picture...

i am sure there are some old plaster masters around here. the principal at my arch office has some old guy he loves but i am not looking to hire. My budget allows for the materials only. this is a complete diy. plaster included, if need be.

I will definitely look further into the flush baseboard method. It might work for me as well if i find the right materials to match thicknesses or shim it to be flush... maybe...

One question -- How did you resolve a joint between baseboard and sheetrock? Was sheetrock finished with some kind of bead?

I would prefer to have it seamless but i don't think that is really possible...

As far as cement board solution I am thinking to get away with a skim coat only. What if I use the cement board as a scratch coat + a few coats of sandable setting compound over it + good bathroom paint on top? Will this crack and peal?

On the other hand it is a very small room (11 x 5.5) so it might not be soooo much work to do the full old-style plaster.

How the hell do they do this baseboardless transitions i see in all these architectural magazines? is this just for photos and then it turns into wet paper bag as soon as the cameras are off?

Thanks, Paul for the great conversation. I really appreciate it.

[chuck stevenson]

Tom,

You can get 'sanded' caulk to match the grout in some brands.
Your walls will get some damage without baseboard.

[Apt4C]

hi CX,
thanks for the input.

'lifestile' is what makes the world go round these days. personally, i think aesthetics are important. but there is lots of abuse and bs connected to it. everything looks some way. aesthetic is unavoidable. like anything else, it is a choice as important as anything else. it is here to stay and we are confronted with aesthetic choices every day wether we want it or not. aesthetc choices need to be educated, conscious decisions just like anything else. the old formula says -- form and function. but for some crazy reasons aesthetic and design are either over marginalized or over emphasized... the visual culture is underdeveloped and all sorts of ugly, non-functional, over or under designed crap is being sold to people for too much money (designer this or that) or not enough money (99 cent store made in china). it is all out of ballance, it seems to me.

In any case, thank you for bringing up the 'no baseboard for 20 years' example. if you could give me more info on how this was achieved and waterproofed in wet-ish areas, and how i can learn from that example to resolve my issue -- i will be eternaly grateful.

[cx]

Not waterproofed at all in any area, Tom.

If you want waterproof, you're gonna hafta go to plan B. I think waterproofing areas like that is usually overrated unless you're prepared to make some sort of threshold considerations for waterproofing at the entry door, around the terlit pipe, etc.

But you could certainly turn some KerdiBand up the walls and mud and texture over it like the rest of the sheetrock if you wanted.

I was just trying to point out that some folks have found a way to live with sheetrock walls without baseboards. Your mileage may vary.

And the house of which I speak was designed and built by a genius and the interior design was done by a very influential professional lady. I alla time referred to her as Mrs. Customer.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[Houston Remodeler]

I'll take pictures of the baseboard detail on monday when I get to work. The bottom edge of the drywall was simply floated / left alone over the baseboard,. The baseboard has a 1/4x1/4 rabbit at the very top, just below the drywall. Personally I would have installed J channel on the bottom of the drywall and floated it from view, but I didn't get a vote as I was working with "un-named famous architect"

I am off to a 9-ball tourney tonight, so you're on your own for a spell.

[cx]

I dunno what's proper to wish a fella goin' off to shoot pool, Paul. May your stick stay straight? Naw, that can't be it. May your balls............ Naw, that ain't gonna fly, neither.

Good luck.