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Unread 05-24-2013, 06:56 AM   #16
tilejoe
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The thought of having to pick up and put down 2' x 2' 3/4" tiles to level em out because you used plywood and greenskin....jezzzuus...I know Scotty can crush a golf ball in his hand, but that kinda work is exhausting. The flattest plywood floor flails in comparison to flat mud. Not to mention the fragile nature of crema marfil. I wouldn't want to pull any of those up to add a little more thinset.
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Unread 05-24-2013, 07:01 AM   #17
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We call it Crema Awful.
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Unread 05-24-2013, 08:23 AM   #18
John Bridge
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The two layers of wood are not required for a mud job. And if I ever find a 2000 foot wood floor that is flat I will have gone to heaven.

Scotty,

The mud is deck mud, not fat mud like the Florida guys use. The screeds are made from the same mud and the field is pulled to them. That way you end up with a monolith. You should have attended the JB mud course.
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Unread 05-24-2013, 09:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
The thought of having to pick up and put down 2' x 2' 3/4" tiles to level em out because you used plywood and greenskin....jezzzuus...I know Scotty can crush a golf ball in his hand, but that kinda work is exhausting. The flattest plywood floor flails in comparison to flat mud. Not to mention the fragile nature of crema marfil. I wouldn't want to pull any of those up to add a little more thinset.
My thought exactly.
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Unread 05-24-2013, 12:43 PM   #20
tilelayer
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1st pic shows mud screeds or runners
2nd shows lots of mud
last shows material we used

I wouldnt just jump into mudding a 2k sq ft floor. You need to screw up a couple floors to learn mud. No offense. Unless your one of the tile gods on this forum. But honestly try mudding a smaller bathroom to develop the feel you need to get it right and do it correctly and efficiently .
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Unread 05-24-2013, 01:04 PM   #21
tilejoe
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Rick is right about f ing a few up first, but its easier to pull a larger area vs smaller
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Unread 05-24-2013, 01:26 PM   #22
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=Easiest 25 grand you'll make in this business=

Wow, $12.50 a foot for mudset 24 x 24 crema marfil. Im getting tops $5.50 in Boca Raton
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Unread 05-24-2013, 04:43 PM   #23
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I'd shoot for 20$pf but then maybe that's why you don't see me posting any stone pics.
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Unread 05-24-2013, 06:29 PM   #24
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Like Derrick and JB said, the screed is made of mud. You have to use the box type of straight edges to cut the mud down a little at a time. A laser level works well to get your heights just right.

This pic shows a screed on the outside edge and another against the house.
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Unread 05-25-2013, 06:57 AM   #25
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Mud

We use the same method that Davy is showing. Learning how to mud floors is in my opinion the most difficult discipline of mud period. You have to develop a feel for it. It takes a lot of practice and frustration at first, but once you get it down, there is not many surfaces that cannot be corrected to making it level with mud. I always tell a builder to drop the floors lower than necessary if there is a question of depth to an adjoining surface, like a wood floor. Sand and cement ( mud) is cheaper than chipping concrete. Practice makes perfect. Good Luck John Cox
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Unread 05-25-2013, 02:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac
Even with mud doesn't natural stone require a double layer plywood floor?
Isaac, the exception, and the only one I'm aware of, is for a reinforced deck mud bed over a cleavage membrane, reinforcing mesh in the center of the mud that is a minimum of 1 1/4" thick and 2" at maximum.

Any other type of mud installation over wood framed floors for natural stone tile and you'd be correct.
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Unread 05-30-2013, 11:06 AM   #27
Scottish Tile and Stone
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Thanks everyone

John. There's lots a classes I should have taken. Lol

Looks like I may be pulling mud. Now she's worried about height if I double up plywood.
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Unread 05-30-2013, 06:54 PM   #28
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Im definitely not a mud "pro" Scott (although I wish I was). Ive only done a couple large areas with deck mud but you say the customer is concerned with height on double layer, isnt an unbonded bed supposed to be 1-1/4" minimum thickness. Maybe one of the other guys who knows more about mud can chime in.
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Unread 05-30-2013, 09:57 PM   #29
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Just fat mud it as you go. Why would you go through all the trouble of pulling mud and then go through all the trouble of getting it lippage free?

For the cost of a light diamond grind and refinish (here in Florida anyway) I'm not so sure why guys don't just rough it in and then have the floor finished by machine.

We used to do work for one designer who always had the floor refinished after we installed it no matter how perfect the work was. Of course the less grinding they had to do the price for refinishing was less. You can't get a better stone floor no matter what method or system you use if its gonna be hit with diamonds after install. You can run your hand over the floor after they do it and it feels like one solid slab of stone, monolithic.
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Unread 05-30-2013, 11:24 PM   #30
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I gotta reinforce Ray's question here, Scotty.

If you are concerned with the added height of another layer of plywood and a membrane, you certainly won't have room for the absolute minimum 1 1/4" unbonded, reinforced mud bed over your single layer.

All that presumes also that your joist structure meets L/720 deflection requirements (F-141-12 Stone says L/360 but that should be corrected in the 2013 edition, which I don't have) and a joist spacing no greater than 16" on center.

Some of the mud methods being shown in the previous photos do not qualify for your application.
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