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Unread 02-09-2020, 05:18 PM   #76
cx
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Nonsense! If it wazza light fixture it would have wars comin' out of it.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 07:56 PM   #77
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Optical illusion! After reading the description again a few times over, and cx’s comment; if I turned the picture upside down, I see it’s a hole. With it rightside up, it looks as if the hole is coming out at me, so it looked something like a glove. Funny how the eye can play tricks on us. Either that, or I’ve been drinking too much.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 08:27 PM   #78
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I plenty times have difficulty with photos here on the forums, Jeff, and sometimes I still can't see it even after somebody done 'splain it.

But this time I suppose I just knew what the photo was gonna shower on accounta all the discussion that came before.

But if you want it should be a light bulb, by jimminy it's a light bulb, say I.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 05:37 PM   #79
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Got the one inch Aquapex today. Surprisingly less flexible than I anticipated. Keep in mind I have never worked with PEX before, so my anticipation doesn't mean much. I didn't expect garden hose flex but certainly was surprised by the rigid monster coil I got in the mail. Perhaps smaller diameters of PEX A have more flex. It does feel nicer than the stuff from the local big box stores.

I made a connection with the manual expander (Bluefin brand from Supplyhouse). And while it worked, I am very glad I only have to make two connections in that size. Doing 1 inch manually was hard but I presume 1/2 in is very doable that way if you have more than a few connections.

I think this will work great in a buried conduit as the service line but altogether I feel I'll remain more of a copper guy.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 05:50 PM   #80
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In order of flexibility, type-A is the most flexible and will bend to the smallest diameter without kinking. As you go up to -B or -C, the pipe becomes less flexible and requires a larger radius of a bend.

Be prepared for some significant hand workouts using a manual tool! You may need to pace yourself. ALl the more reason to avoid running the pex like copper, and limiting your fittings (ideal) to one on each end versus lots in between.
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Unread 02-13-2020, 08:48 PM   #81
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Jim, I am making only two PEX expansion connections, one in the house and one at the meter. No need to pace myself, fortunately.

Speaking of pacing myself, I had to request a replacement brass fitting today as one of the two transition fittings (copper to PEX A) I had ordered showed small nicks in the main barb all around. I've heard that this can lead to leaks. Would hate to find out the hard way. Thankfully, Supplyhouse will just send out a replacement without hassle. Love that place!

I also found out that one foot is the required minimum for buried supply lines in my neck of the woods. Methinks that's too shallow, especially with regards to heat gain in the summer and possible freezing. I am shooting for 2 1/2 feet to be on the safe side.
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Unread 02-13-2020, 09:55 PM   #82
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Absolutely no danger of freeze at a foot deep in your part of the world, Wolfgang, and I'd not be concerned with any heat gain, either, although you might actually get water that's a degree or two warmer than your water company's promise.

Consider that as soon as you go deeper than that you gotta consider the possibility of other buried utilities in the area. I trust that you will call Dig Tess (well, now it's 811, I believe) before you start in any case? And pay attention to the possibility that you may have buried utilities that don't belong to the electric company or the phone company or the gas company and might be at about 18 inches deep, such as an underground electric service entry to the house from the meter pole, if any. That sorta thing. I've personally had workers dig through a gas line in Austin after the gas company (through Dig Tess) told me it wasn't there and it was less than 18 inches deep.

I personally find that 811 "service" pretty useless, but if you don't call and you do dig up someone else's wires or pipes or....other, it is suddenly the most important and most expensive wire you can imagine.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-14-2020, 09:59 AM   #83
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Thanks, CX. Good tips! I had called 811 previously and know for sure that the gas line runs elsewhere (they marked it at the time). I'll call them again just to cover my butt.

Sewer lines exits towards the rear of the house. I confirmed that, too. Telephone and electricity are all above ground in my area. Now you got me thinking about the depth, though. Maybe I should just hand-dig if a foot suffices? They make these $30 tools. And I have a spade bit for my Boschhammer.
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Unread 02-14-2020, 12:08 PM   #84
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I dunno, Wolfgang, I'd not be comfortable with a major utility only a foot deep. I'd have to ditch-witch it to at least 2'.
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Unread 02-14-2020, 12:25 PM   #85
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Dan, where I grew up in Pennsylvania, we put our water lines three feet below grade and in my senior year of high school they still froze! I remember it well.

But down here, including up where Wolfgang lives, we have no frost line to be concerned about.

For protection from physical damage? Well, you never know what the next guy will have in mind, so it's difficult to predict just how much depth is enough from that standpoint. I have dug ditches up to 7 feet deep for Oak Wilt root control for several of my local customers, so your 2-foot ditch for a water line would offer no more protection than Wolfgang's 1-foot depth. An extreme example, perhaps, but I've done such ditching in an area where I had installed 7200 volt primary electric underground a few years prior, 3 feet deep and Dig Tess failed to mention it when I called before doing that ditching. Ain't no depth safe if the next fella isn't careful with his work or sometimes even if he is, eh?

Not saying he shouldn't dig his water line deeper than one foot, just saying he doesn't actually need to for any environmental concerns. He definitely wants to put some yellow Cuidado tape over the ditch at about the 4-inch level, though.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-14-2020, 12:57 PM   #86
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I believe 2' below grade is code here, cx, for electric/water/NG/sewer, and except for water the 2' rule is for physical protection.

You're right, of course, even 2' down may not save them from a crazy guy running a ditch witch, but it does make 'em work that much harder.
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Unread 02-14-2020, 01:18 PM   #87
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Regardless how deep I'll dig, I will put this PEX tubing in a PVC conduit for sure. There will be some protection.

Or I could do it redneck style, just a garden hose run across the lawn and no digging after all?
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Unread 02-21-2020, 10:33 PM   #88
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I was using my Bosch reciprocating saw today to remove a piece of blocking inside a wall cavity in order to create a path for the new water lines to the master shower, and a strange thing happened:

1.) At the tip of my saw blade I saw a spark. The GFCI breaker tripped. In proximity where I was sawing was an outlet that is part of that circuit. However, NO contact was made, not with wiring or the electrical box (which is metal). Also, the wood I was sawing had no screw in it either.

I reset the breaker, checked all wiring nearby and everything was fine.

2.) I then proceeded to remove a piece of wood in that same area near the outlet. As I was hitting the hammer hard and sinking the chisel into the wood, a spark emerged from the tip of the chisel and the breaker tripped again.

I am baffled. All I was hitting was dry construction wood. No moisture nearby, no electrical wires, no screw in the wood.

My GFCI is in the main breaker box, protecting the entire branch circuit. Could the vibrations and the mechanical force have induced a temporary magnetic field of sorts?
Also, my reciprocating saw has never ever tripped a GFCI breaker before. I used it afterwards in a different area, and it was fine. Since I also provoked the phenomenon with my chisel, I don't think the saw is faulty. And certainly, dry wood doesn't conduct electricity. The spark I saw was not anything like what you see when there is a short circuit. More like when you hit a screw with a saw blade. But then again, there was no screw.
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Unread 02-22-2020, 12:08 AM   #89
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That is quite the conundrum.

Is this just a GFCI, or a GFCI/Arc fault combo?

I've never heard of a vibration causing a fault, but maybe somewhere in that wall is a couple of bare wires that got close enough during the hammering to cause an arc.

As for the spark off your chisel....you're not by chance the King of Asgard, are you?
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Unread 02-22-2020, 01:25 AM   #90
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Minimum depth for water herein the kansas city metro is 41 inches frost line is 30-36, power is 2 foot. Gas is 18 inches, Pex in conduit is over kill in my opinion and a waste of money unless you have a super rocky ground. I hit 2 at&t lines in my last trenching job they were less than 6 inches down and poorly marked. I also caught a lateral that wasn't supposed to be where it was. The problem with the trencher compared to the hoe is there is no "feeling it" it is just chewing up the ground and anything in it's way. I have "grabbed" wires with the backhoe and not broke them, the trencher on the hand once you hit it, it is to late. I always call for a locate if I am disturbing soil and always plan on hitting something that shouldn't be there. On the electrical I always back fill half the trench and then place caution tape then back fill the rest. If there is gravel on site then I will back fill 1/2 with gravel then caution tape, then fill the rest with dirt. I also take a Ariel shot with the drone prior to back filling so there is a visual record for the client of where things are so maybe they don't hit something in the future
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