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Unread 09-04-2007, 11:41 AM   #1
ssailer
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Outdoor Balcony - Ditra?

Tearing up tile on outdoor balcony (not over living space). Adding mud slope and Saltillo pavers.

Cover the slope with Ditra before tile?

What do you fellas think?

I don't have a lot of outdoor experience and could really use some advice.

Thanks,
Scott
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Unread 09-04-2007, 12:05 PM   #2
Scooter
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I've been in litigation before over decks on Condos and know a thing or two about them.

You must slope the framing or provide a sloped pre-slope at at least a quarter inch per foot. 3/8 would be better.

I'm not a Ditra guy, but if you are married to it, check with Schulter to see if that is an appropriate EXTERIOR membrane--I doubt it. Any membrane has to be rolled up the walls of the building at least 4 inches, so splashes etc are not absorbed by the framing.

My typical installation would be sloped framing (if you can) or a sloped mud bed over level framing; then an exterior rated membrane, like EPDM, rolled up the walls UNDER the exterior wall treatment; Then flashing over that membrane; then re-install the wall siding; then a drainage mat like Schulter's TROBA; then a setting bed of mud; then tile. Epoxy Grout would be best.

The concept for exterior decks is to let moisture into the mud setting bed, then it is drawn away by the sloped membrane into a Scupper. This is especially important in any wet environment or freeze thaw location.
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Unread 09-04-2007, 12:29 PM   #3
Dave Gobis
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They have a complete exterior system including the scuppers.

http://www.schluter.com/142.aspx
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Unread 09-04-2007, 06:04 PM   #4
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so it is troba. Then the mud bed and if putting in tile you need to the put ditra and then the tile. That is what the cross section view looks like. Or do you need to use the troba plus system. That link is a little confusing.
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Unread 09-04-2007, 06:44 PM   #5
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Remember if you use troba, you must put 2x2 galvanized wire in the middle of your mudbed to keep the mortar bed from cracking.
Gary
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Unread 09-04-2007, 07:21 PM   #6
T_Hulse
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Whether you use drainage mat system like Troba or not, you still want to keep any exterior mud bed dry by putting a waterproof layer over it. You do not want to let the moisture get into the setting bed to start with. That's really the Achille's heel of an otherwise great system: a mud bed can't handle exterior water exposure, especially in a freeze-thaw climate.
Schluter's standard system for a tile balcony (not over living space) is sloped plywood, CBU, Ditra with Kerdi Band at the seams & flashing:
http://www.schluter.com/5649.aspx
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Unread 09-04-2007, 07:51 PM   #7
ssailer
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thanks Tom. the surface of the balcony is concrete. Would I do vapor barrier, lathe, mud, Ditra (with Kerdi band) then tile?

If my order is right, how do I attach the lathe to the concrete?

Thanks,
Scott
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Unread 09-04-2007, 07:53 PM   #8
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If it's over unoccupied living area like most balconies, and if it already has proper slope like Scooter described, then it's a little more simple:
http://www.schluter.com/5617.aspx
You don't need the big fancy gutter system they have there. The also have just a simple "L" flashing made to work with this system called Bara, and several other profiles as well.
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Unread 09-04-2007, 07:56 PM   #9
dbol
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That is what I thought it was. There has been other threads recently about this subject. Where and when should you use troba. If not in a freeze/thaw environment.
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Unread 09-04-2007, 08:32 PM   #10
cx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter
The concept for exterior decks is to let moisture into the mud setting bed, then it is drawn away by the sloped membrane into a Scupper. This is especially important in any wet environment or freeze thaw location.
What Tom said, Scooter. On exteriors you always wanna keep the water out of the substrate to the extent possible. The membrane under the mud is for the moisture you can't always keep out.

And, Scott, you might wanna check with Noble Company about their Noble Deck. I think they swear they'll warranty it over living space even, just installed over a sloped wood deck and CBU. Our friend Eric (e3) would have plenty information for you.

Too scary for moi.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-04-2007, 08:44 PM   #11
ssailer
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mucho scary for me too, CX. Rather stay inside where it rains in the shower and freezes in the fridge!!

Gotta make this one worth my while!!

Scott
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