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Unread 06-19-2014, 01:14 PM   #1
diddly
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veneer stone over painted brick fireplace

Going to put on real veneer stone over a painted brick fireplace. I saw from past threads and forums that not many postings recently. Wondering if any new methods /products have come on the market with a successful track record? In past have screwed up wonderboard but maybe now there is other method to account for the paint. Do not want to take chance with the weight of the stone.

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Unread 06-19-2014, 07:45 PM   #2
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Gone? I'd rather call you Diddly, but how about a first name?

Attaching cement board with mechanical fasteners is a good method. Otherwise, you'll be getting into mud work.
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Unread 06-20-2014, 07:52 AM   #3
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I've always been called diddly so I just took it as my first name. Guess I just got used to it. Amazing what you can get used to. Thanks for the advice on painted brick. You are right, why take a chance on going over paint as is? I will look at a job today. If it has too much deflection or is out of plumb for their veneer material I will put up galvy wire, scratch it and fat mud it. If not I will board it.

Thanks John Great web site!

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Unread 06-22-2014, 07:28 AM   #4
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attaching metal lathe to brick

What is the best method of attaching metal lathe to painted brick and how do I know what side of lathe to face the scratch coat. I would hope to be using rib lath not what is at a home improvement store. Also, any need for tar paper in back of wire if the brick is painted? What if not painted?

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Unread 06-22-2014, 07:52 AM   #5
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Hi Bookie, Is this in a shower, fireplace face or what? If this is in a shower, I would probably paint a membrane on the finished mudded walls just to be on the safe side. No paper or membrane if it's a dry area. I wouldn't let the paint determine anything. If it's in a wet area, use a moisture barrier to be safe.

I place the lath horizontally and so the pockets in the lath are pointing upward. But, it really doesn't matter, good mud will stay on the wall regardless of the lath direction. Ol JB even use to run it vertical and his shoes always stayed clean.

I like drilling holes and using Tap-con screws with flat washers on them to fasten the lath but I've seen guys use concrete nails too. That was prolly back before we knew what Tap-Con screws were.
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Unread 06-28-2014, 12:46 PM   #6
diddly
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scratch coAT METHOD

Planning on installing heavy veneer stone over a thickly painted brick fireplace , I am planning on attaching galvanized rib lath with tap cons and masonry nails. The brick has some deflection and is out of plumb especially the outside corners. I am hoping to use the scratch coat to plumb up and get rid of any depressions on brick surface and then to apply the stone with a veneer stone mortar mix once the scratch has set up {probably the next day} I will prime the scratch with weld o bond prior to the mortar mix and stone.

First question: any need for tar paper under the wire or will the paint on brick act to allow the scratch to dry properly?

Second question: What is a proper mix of ingredients for this scratch coat? I have seen 3 to 1 sand to Portland mix mentioned and using the mortar mix that I will attach the stone with as a scratch. Is one better than other?

Third question: Should I use an admix along with water for the scratch or just water?

Fourth question: What type of sand for scratch Some say masonry but will that have enough body and grit for the bond coat? Of course it will spread easier on the wire with masonry sand and maybe the scratching lines will do the job no matter the sand.

Fifth question: Most sites never mention rib lath 3/8 inch rib just metal lath .I will use more scratch mix but except for more mix can I use rib instead of the flat wire lath without the rib?

I sure would appreciate the help on these questions.

Thanks,

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Unread 06-28-2014, 02:36 PM   #7
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No need for tar paper since it's on a fireplace. The scratch coat doesn't need the brick to set up, it will set on it's own just fine.

You also need lime in the mud. 3 to 1 to 1 lime is about right. I think my mud is closer to 4 to 1 to 1. I never use admix in the mud. It won't hurt anything but I don't think it's needed.

I usually use plaster sand for scratch coats, it's a little courser than masonry (brick) sand. But, the brick sand may also work.

I think either lath would do. I use the flat lath.

Let me add this. Over the years I've noticed that the weak link is bonding the mud to the stone. On outside jobs out in the weather, I've seen stone pop off the mud within a couple years. Not all the stone, just one here and there. I know yours is inside but still I think this is the weakest point. Starting at the scratch, Of course, just about any mud will grab onto the lath, getting it to stay up there would be the only challenge. Then, if you get a good rough scratch on the mud, most wall muds will grab onto the scratch. But sometimes the backs of the stones aren't scratched rough enough. I would be tempted to throw a little thinset into the mix that I use to stick the stone to the scratch. Either that, or skim coat the stone with thinset just before slapping the fat mud on them. Keeping the scratch coat and stone damp may also help.

A rake like this will put a nice scratch coat on the mud. I've seen them at Home Depot. Here's a link.
http://www.demandproducts.com/eifs-i...4,37&sku=SRAKE
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Last edited by Davy; 06-28-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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Unread 06-28-2014, 02:57 PM   #8
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Here's a shower we just scratched.
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Unread 06-28-2014, 03:23 PM   #9
diddly
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scratch coat

Thank you Davvy. much appreciated. You are right about the thin set on the back of the veneer stone. Certainly outside but inside as well The thin backbutter {even just a skim } will achieve better bond and one less worry. Nice to see shower walls done in mud. I have had "tilesetters" say to me when I mention How much mud work they do answer "I only use thinset mortar no mastic for my wet walls" They believe thinset means mud. Not their fault, I guess, But it is still too bad for the trade.

Take care.

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