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Unread 09-17-2021, 08:42 AM   #1
TileItAlNow
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Been years since I've been here! Happy to see it is still here... questions!

So... haven't done a bath remodel in years.

Dumb it down. I know we have the orange stuff now... and a host of other latest and greatest materials.

This is a straight forward bath remodel no fixture moving.

Gut to studs.

Usually I would do concrete board up 4' from floor and all around tub/shower.
I would put thick mil plastic on joist in wet areas (shower/tub), then concrete over that.

I know there are membranes that people are putting over the concrete board now, even for a tub install?

What's the scoop. Seems every year there's a "new" way to do something that worked perfectly fine in the past.

Thanks!
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Unread 09-17-2021, 08:49 AM   #2
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Welcome, Pete.

Nothing at all wrong with using polyethylene sheeting behind mortar or CBU walls in a tub/shower so long as you also take the time and make the effort to cover the "tub leg" in front of the tub down to the floor.

The newer direct bonded waterproofing membranes make it easier to do the tub leg and any niches you might have in the walls. They come with some downsides, but I find it easier to properly waterproof the tub leg area and any niches with them. They are substantially more costly than poly sheeting, but the cost divided by the 30+ year lifespan of a properly waterproofed shower makes the cost quite reasonable.

All dealer's choice.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-17-2021, 09:48 AM   #3
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Understood. I'm still thinkin about going the membrane route. Been busy demo'ing out the kids' bath. What a cluster-frick. The bed was so dry that the tiles pop off like they were never attached...
Thought I'd be able to salvage the board above the 4' area at floor. Nope. That's trashed behind the mirror area.

The only good thing... so far... is that we're NOT moving fixtures so the plumbing can stay in place, Just need to change valves etc.

I forgot how much fun this is.

I'm certain I'll be back around. We're still working on material selection. Wife is looking for timeless -- we like subway tiles but now that we're in South Florida (we were in the NE the last time I was here) -- she's trying to do 12x6 subway on the wall and in front of the apron-less tub, etc. Not sure on the floor yet.

I remember you from years back! I was here when there was a special deal on a tile saw. I still have that saw and use it!

I ought to try and search out my old user name.

Oh! What's the latest and greastest on leveling systems? MTL still the best choice or can I get away with the wedge methods?

Sorry for the all the questions. Gettin' older, don't wanna forget. LOL.
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Unread 09-18-2021, 07:34 AM   #4
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Welcome back, Pete,

Lots of leveling (lippage control, actually) to choose from, and all have their pros and cons. A search in the forum will turn up half a dozen at least.

Apron-less tubs are fun. That a new unit or an existing one?
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Unread 09-18-2021, 01:06 PM   #5
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New install. Replacing a 60's style brown alcove tub with an apron-less alcove (tub in same spot, just trying to make it look more "built in".

Don't have the space for a "drop in".

I am open to other suggestions.

10-4 on the lippage methods.

Still doing demo. What a mess. All the usual stuff that I sorta forgot about. Like... "Yeah, that's really wet back there"
and... "So... they thought paper was a good idea back there"
and lastly, "Wow... that chicken wire turns to powder when it rusts"

LOL. Good times.

Got to read about disconnecting the drain on a tub built on a slab (no basement or crawl) -- this is a first for me.
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Unread 09-18-2021, 01:21 PM   #6
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Iffn that tub drain is the typical type, with a + at the bottom there's a special, and inexpensive removal tool available at probably any home improvement big box store.

I've been having my own fun installing an apron-less tub. A lot more prep work than I thought. Feel free to read my, and other folk's threads.
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Unread 09-19-2021, 05:10 PM   #7
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Brainstorm an idea for a "cap" on a half-way tile up bathroom wall. Love it or crazy?

So... before you laugh at me. Here me out.

We're huge fans of subway tile baths and have done more than our share of them.

All the ones we've done have been in the NE part of the USA.
We are now in South Florida...

Wife and I have this idea in our head. Let's hear what you think.

The plan is to take the same granite that we're going to use for the vanity (as well as window ledge (stool) and tub shelves accents, etc...) and do the following:

Cut strips (I have a talented granite guy in the building next to mine... he can do anything, he's a genius with stone). Let's say the strips will be 2" by - however long, and using 3cm stone. (So the stone will be 3cm thick, 2" wide and lengths that are workable). So... now... if I described it correctly you have long thick "sticks" of granite with simple edges.

Moving on.

We want to use that granite as the "cap" for the top of the 4' wall. (the total wall height is 8'6"... so 4' of the wall (from floor) would be tiled, and then "capped" with these strips.

We're a little "wishy washy" on how to attached these strips, but here's my idea rolling around in my head.

The bath is gutted to the studs. My idea is to concrete board the lower 4'. Then tile the lower 4'. So I will have a thickness now of about an 1" (approx). I would then take the 2" strip and put on top of that "top edge". Maybe 1/16" away from the studs. Then with some 1/16" spacer (or similar) set the sheetrock above. This would create a deep enough area to support a small cantilever of the granite.

I know that might be a little long-winded... but it sounds great and normal in my crazy head.

If there's a "no dummy... it's easier this way" idea. I'm very interested.

Thanks!
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Unread 09-19-2021, 05:24 PM   #8
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Absolutely! I'll stalk your posts on it. I've never done an apron-less. My guess is getting that "wall" to have solid integrity and be water tight is part of the theatrics.

So far this "simple" bath remodel is turning out into the typical, "Oh! Look at that" job. LOL.
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Unread 09-19-2021, 05:35 PM   #9
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Pete, it'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered.

I trust this chair rail will all be outside the wet area of the bathroom?

Were it mine I'd likely just attach it with the same thinset mortar I was using to tile the wainscot. I would envision about an inch of the rail on the top of the CBU and tile, and about the same amount of overhang. If that's the case, bonding to the top of the tile and CBU and also to the wall should make it sufficiently sound to withstand most anything other than children.

[Edit] Upon further inspection of your drawing, I see you intend to install the wainscot and chair rail before you install the drywall above. While I wouldn't recommend that, it actually helps with the support of the chair rail.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-19-2021, 05:46 PM   #10
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10-4 on keeping it all in one thread. Makes good sense.

Yeah... You're reading me exactly right.

The granite would only be in the non-wet area.

I also agree with not liking the idea of the drywall on top like that, but I think you see what I'm doing to create a "sandwich" or additional "support" for the granite.

I just don't know how much I like the weight like that. 4'8" of drywall on top like that (yeah, it'll be screwed... but...)

Do you have a better way to do it? We don't want much of an overhang of the granite, but I also want it to be stout. And... keep in mind... as the granite gets more narrow, it get's more likely that it can crack or do bad things.

Not to muddy up my own post, but what other options do we have? Wife and I LOVE this particular look... but it was born out of the fact that bullnose has become less popular (not something I understand) -- and apparently all the rage is a metal "edge" of some kind (wife doesn't like that look).

We are really starting to love the granite idea because it will tie the different materials of the room together.
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Unread 09-19-2021, 07:31 PM   #11
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I would have no problem at all with the drywall sitting directly on the stone strip, Pete. Indeed, that would actually be helpful to your design. It's the drywall work done after that stone was installed that worries me, 'specially if the ceiling is not yet in. But if that doesn't worry you, it'll not bother me any longer. Guess I've just watched too many drywall guys in my career.

Gives you a little less bonding surface for the stone, but maybe the cantilever action will make up for that.

Or you could add the CBU on top of the installed drywall to fur out the tile and give you the same top surface, plus the back surface, for bonding. Problems with that would be killing the surfaces at door casings and such.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-20-2021, 05:24 AM   #12
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Understood. And you nailed it on the door casing area. I'm trying to minimize the amount of thickness used for that very reason (the entry to the room is the width of the door)...

You've clearly played this game before!

Many thanks!
Pete
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Unread 10-05-2021, 06:37 PM   #13
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I'm debating... part of me is considering undermounting this tub:
Kohler K-1121-0

Another part of me is considering dropping it in.

If I opt to undermount... having never done an undermount tub... what is the general practice with respect to tile substrate over the acrylic portion of the tub. Meaning, I have apron wall (and surrounding alcove area)... do you simply extend the concrete board?

I saw this thread:
https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=5829

But... it didn't appear that that tub was designed for undermount.

Any input would be very helpful. Thanks!
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Unread 10-05-2021, 08:42 PM   #14
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Pete, I know of no effective way to use that tub in a tub/shower application. Kohler makes an add-on tiling flange for some of their tubs, but why would you do that instead of purchasing a tub with a proper tiling flange?

Undermounting it? I suppose a fella could cobble together something that would work for a while, but, again, why? If you want a tub in a tiled tub/shower application, get a tub made for the application.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-06-2021, 05:30 AM   #15
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Ah... I was looking for an tub that was apron-less to use in an alcove... (So I could tile a framed apron.)

Is there a particular reason why that tub can't be used in a shower-over-tub application?
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