Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 01-04-2008, 08:57 AM   #1
davefoc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: fullerton, ca
Posts: 62
Type S mortar?

I've built six showers now in an old building I own. As time as gone on I have come closer to following the recommendations in John Bridge's book exactly, but there are still a few things that I do differently and one of them is the mortar I use.

I started with type S mortar for the pre slope and deck because that was what the guy in Lowes recommended and I never changed, but maybe I should have? It's obviously easier to buy the deck mud premixed but if it's causing a problem either in installation or long term reliability I want to stop doing it.

So far I haven't noticed any problems, but I'm not sure what I should be looking for. As time as gone on I have used a drier and drier mix. Initially it was just hard for me to get used to the idea of mixing the cement that dry but now I think I'm finally got that about right. It's much easier to pack it in and get a flat surface than it was when I was doing it too wet.

A second thing that I do differently is the way I make the pre-slope. I was scared of a very thin pre-slope layer (especially near the drain) on the first shower I built and so I installed the drain assembly with the nubs on the bottom sitting on the plywood. This result in a minimum pre-slope thickness of about 3/4". Wrongly or rightly that seems strong enough to me that I haven't been reinforcing it with mesh. Of course this makes the shower floor 3/8" inch higher and a little heavier but excluding those issues are there any problems with making the pre-slope a little higher? How much of a risk am I taking because I'm not reinforcing the pre-slope with mesh.
davefoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 01-04-2008, 09:05 AM   #2
ceramictec
Tampa Florida Tile Contractor
 
ceramictec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 26,452
the pre-slope is sandwiched with the plywood and the weight of the top mudbed and finished tile.
you don't really have much to worry about with it being thin, and also there is no wear on the pre-slope so your o.k.

I use wire when I do it on plywood, no wire on concrete.


Mortars are differentiated primarily by their strength: M is the highest strength, S is next, and N is a moderate strength mortar. Use a Type N mortar for all masonry work unless there is a compelling reason to choose another mortar.
__________________
Brian
........
..........Tampa Florida Tile Installation
..............^^--Check out our Blog--^^
Tampa, Florida installer of Schluter Kerdi/Kerdiboard waterproofed showers
Tampa, Florida installer of Laticrete HydroBan/HydroBan board waterproofed showers
ceramictec is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2008, 11:46 AM   #3
tilerite
Registered User
 
tilerite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 4,662
I've been using type s for years with no problems.
tilerite is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2008, 12:00 PM   #4
TGR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 309
If you follow this link down to the bottom of the page you will see the ratios.

http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/tps/briefs/brief02.htm
__________________
Todd
TGR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2008, 12:46 PM   #5
Mike2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: LaConner, Washington
Posts: 13,694
This is one of those areas where you'll get different opinions. I consider deck mud (without lime) bestfor shower floors. Much easier to work with and has better porosity for drainage.
Mike2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 12:16 AM   #6
davefoc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: fullerton, ca
Posts: 62
Thanks for responses. I was relieved to find out that what I had done, at least as far as the mortar, was ok if not perfect. I read through the mortar discussions I could find before I asked the question and I became a little concerned that I might have done something really bad.

As to the thickness: Now that I've seen a few articles about installing pre-slopes including what John Bridges has to say about it in his book I understand that the 3/8 inch minimum thick pre-slope isn't a problem.

I haven't seen anybody advocating what I do, though, which is to just mount the drain a little higher and install the mortar for the pre-slope without any other stuff (no tar paper, no thinset, no wire mesh, and no admixture). It seems easier to me but maybe there's a problem with it that I haven't experienced yet (or maybe people just don't want the shower floor to be higher than it needs to be). I started doing it that way because the only information I had on this when I did my first shower was the instructions that came with the Oatey shower liner and they didn't show anything other than mortar there and as I noted above I just wasn't sure that a cement layer only 3/8 of an inch thick was going to be ok (which is the way it's drawn in the Oatey instructions).

Anyway, thanks again for the responses. The input was very much appreciated.

ETA: This is a link to pictures from the last shower I built, if anybody was interested. Comments (including negative ones) would of course be greatly appreciated.

- Dave


http://picasaweb.google.com/davefoc/...46851945768434

Last edited by davefoc; 01-05-2008 at 12:32 AM.
davefoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 09:49 AM   #7
ceramictec
Tampa Florida Tile Contractor
 
ceramictec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 26,452
hey Dave,

looks good, I didnt see a picture of a preslope under your liner.
you did do one didnt you ?


p.s. I see you really like duct tape....lol
__________________
Brian
........
..........Tampa Florida Tile Installation
..............^^--Check out our Blog--^^
Tampa, Florida installer of Schluter Kerdi/Kerdiboard waterproofed showers
Tampa, Florida installer of Laticrete HydroBan/HydroBan board waterproofed showers
ceramictec is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 10:29 AM   #8
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rosanky, Texas
Posts: 68,024
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
Hi Dave,

It's easy to see you take pride in your workmanship. The plumbing and carpentry (as well as the tile) look very neat.

I hope that's not a piece of backer board nailed to the inside of the curb I see in one of the pictures.
John Bridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 11:59 AM   #9
davefoc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: fullerton, ca
Posts: 62
Preslope: I really did one. The photographer must have been taking a nap.

Duct tape: I was laughing at myself by the time I was done with that. It didn't fall down though.

John Bridges: That was very nice of you to stop by. I have read and reread your book now. Thank you. My favorite trick that I got from it was putting thinset on the back of the backer board where the liner is. I now use a 1/2 inch plywood behind the area where the liner folds are and 3/4 inch shims on the rest of the wall so there's a 1/4 inch pocket for the liner folds and then use thinset behind the backer board to solidify that area.


The curb: Good eyes there John. OK, a confession, I use backer board on the inside held in place with about five screws across the top of the dam. I realize I am going to hell for this. I have decided to do mudded dam on my next shower (I'm going to pull permits for this one and I think the inspector might make me anyway). In a weak defense, the dam is pretty high (seven inches above the finished shower floor) and these showers are used almost entirely by adults so people aren't filling up the shower pan and using them for baths to wash children.
davefoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 03:58 PM   #10
GabeS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 163
Wow!! Everything looks great. When I tape my shower shelves up I use blue tape(it won't leave a residue when you peel it off). I tape only the upper half of the shelf with the tape flush on the shelf and then on the wall on both sides. It's a lot easier that way. I also like to use a grout float to press small sheet tiles against a floor or wall. It works pretty good.

Thanks for sharing the pics. Good luck on your next project.
__________________
Gabe
GabeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 04:56 PM   #11
davefoc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: fullerton, ca
Posts: 62
Thanks for the comments and the tips GabeS. That seemed like an obvious idea about the grout float (just like a lot of other good ideas do after somebody tells them to me).
davefoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 08:44 PM   #12
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rosanky, Texas
Posts: 68,024
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
You know you've sinned, so don't try to absolve yourself with lame excuses.

You might get away with the nails, but sin no more, my son.

I've torn out many a shower because of errors in judgment such as that. It's truly mind boggling how water seems to worm its way into microscopic openings.
John Bridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 08:54 PM   #13
BFrank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Thats a mighty big curb. Question though, why the dutchman on the curb and the bullnose on the outside and inside as oppossed to the opposite?
BFrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 08:57 PM   #14
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 32,826
What Mike said. Use portland and sand (5 to 1) for the deck mud, it'll work alot better and be more porus. With holes in the liner, you want the water to flow quickly down to the weepholes.

Use the S mud for the curb next time.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2008, 11:03 PM   #15
Deckert
Remodeling and Tile Contractor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 2,113
I'd leave more of the liner hanging over the curb on this next one. Enough that it covers the outside of the curb down to the floor.

The framing underneath that curb is a little unconventional. I'd make the next one solid.

Project looks good, and sounds like your gearing up to make the next one even better.
__________________
Brannigan
Facilities Manager, TPC Snoqualmie Ridge
Reformed Remodeler and C54 Tile Contractor
HeenanGC.com
Deckert is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:12 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC