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Unread 04-21-2006, 12:20 PM   #1
Todds
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New Bathroom Project

I am currently planning my bathroom tile layout and looking for some suggestions and thoughts. Escpecially since you guys are the experts

The room dimensions, when gutted, should be 68.75" wide and 114" long. At the end or far side if the 113" dimension will be an alcove tub/shower. The tub will be of the airtub or whirlpool variety and will most likely be 60" in length. I think the only other choice is something like 66". Since the width of the wall is 68.75, it seems making a seat/ledge at the end of the tub to fill in the 6.75" would be the better option vs. using the 66" tub and dealing with the extra 2.75". Obviously I would love to put the longer tub in, since I am 6' 1" but not sure if there is a great solution here to fill in this extra 2.5".

As far as tile layout:

The tiles are porcelin and come in 3x6, 6x6 and 13x13.

Floor

I plan to use the 3x6 tiles run in a herringbone pattern. The tiles look tumbled and the pattern will look like a brick style floor. albeit a off white/yellowish brick.

Walls

I was going to use the 13x13's on the walls since using 6x6 on top of the 3x6 floor seems like it would seem to busy. I am planning on tiling approx 1/2 way up the walls outside of the shower. Here's my dilema. If I use 3 full 13x13 tiles this would get me up to 39" + the grout lines. I was then going to use 4 rows of a 1x1 tumbled marble tile + a 2" tumbled marble cap/rail tile (approx 6.5"). This would get me up to approx 45.5" in height. The apron for the tub will be tiled as well. Depending on the tub this could be somewhere between 18"-21" high. If I use the 3 13x13 tile pattern for the other walls as described above, I then would be left using one full tile on the bottom and a partial tial of 4.5"-8" on the Apron. Normally, I think you would put the smaller cut tile on the bottom. But if I did that I would then have to carry it around the whole room. This would increase the height of the other tiled walls another 4.5-8". I would think this would be really high no?

The ther choice is to use the 13" tile on the bottom and then 1 cut 13x13 tile tile on the apron. I assume the other alternative is to do something else on the apron but any suggestions here would be appreciated. Since the floor is a herringbone pattern I would think other options may seem to busy.

In the tub area, I would continue up with the 13x13 tiles to match the half walls as well. I was then going to run the 1x1 4 row tiles around the shower as well. As far as the 2" Cap/Rail, do I then run this from the half walls around the shower area as well or end it at the start of the tub/shower? Not sure if running this allaround the shower would look good or not. As a side note, I am planning on installing some type of glass shower doors, so I am not sure if I can or should run the cap in the shower becuase this would be jutting out of the wall. I was then going to continue up to the ceiling with the 13x13 tiles in the shower area.

There is also going to be a window in the shower. It will be of the transom variety. I am going to try to get one as wide as possible. Probably around 23.5" x 53.5". As far as tiling up to the window, there doesn't seem to be many options here. I don't think I can just tile up to the jambs, all the way around , since I will be left with a raw edge. I thought about maybee using PVC millwork and tiling right up to that but attaching this is the one issue. The other option, I thought of would be to use the 2" cap as the moulding around the window. If it makes sense, in the previous paragraph, to run the cap/rail around the shower and the walls I am not sure if it would look good using it for the window moulding as well. Might become to busy.

Any guidance on the layout would be appreciated. I want to order in the tile and some of the item, the 1x1 tumbled marble pieces and the 2" cap are special order and not returnable. Its hard to visualize this stuff without actually seeing it laid out. Graph paper doesn't do that much justice. I know you guys have seen it all when it comes to tile layout and what looks good so I figure I would throw it out there .
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Unread 04-22-2006, 06:30 AM   #2
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Welcome back, Todd.

I'm no help with decorating.
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Unread 04-22-2006, 09:17 PM   #3
Todds
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Me neither. That's why I spent a couple of hrs today in the tile store getting some assitance. I will also go with a 66" tub and fur out the wall about 1" on both side of the tub. No need to have to bend my knees when sitting in the tub

The last piece of the puzzle is the window. I was looking at a weathershield vinyl window and I now see that they say not to paint it. We'll a bright white window is not going to work here. Not with the color of the tile. I don't think glass block is going to look good in this bathroom. I really would like to use a regular style window. Anyone have any suggestions.
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Unread 04-22-2006, 10:11 PM   #4
jadnashua
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Anderson has a line called Infinity that is made of fiberglass that might work. You can get the inside with a wood-grain that can be stained any color you want. Not sure if it can be painted (it also comes in smooth, non-wood grained styles). It also comes in several no-paint colors.
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Unread 04-24-2006, 08:02 AM   #5
Todds
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The fiberglass windows may be the ticket. The Andersen's are replacement windows. It seems they are only availiable through installers. I did see that Mavin also makes a fiberglasswindow and so does Pella. There are some other companies but no delaers in my area. I will go check out the windows today. The benefit with the fiberglass is that you can paint the windows.
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Unread 05-01-2006, 01:04 PM   #6
Todds
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I have found some NICE fiberglass windows by a company called Milgard. All of the windows are made to order. I got priced on both a fixed (picture/transom window) as well as an awning style window. I am wondering if it would be OK to use an awning window in the shower area? The window is completely made of fiberglass and all of the parts are stainless. I don't think water should be an issue. Would be nice to have the option for ventilation as opposed to a fixed window. The bottom of the window would be around 5'3" off the floor.

The window dimensions are 17 1/2" H x 57 3/4" W.

Any thoughts positive or negative.
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Unread 05-01-2006, 01:12 PM   #7
jadnashua
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At that height, I don't think you'd have a problem with the fiberglass window. But, I've not done it, so I can't say from experience.
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Unread 05-18-2006, 08:18 AM   #8
Todds
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I have some questions:

I will be using kerdi and yes I have bought and read the kerdi book. However, I did not see the answer to this question.

Since Kerdi is a waterproof membrane a vapor barrier i would assume is uneccesary. In addition, only unfaced or faced insulation with slits made in the facing with a utility knife should be used on outside walls correct?

When setting a tub I see that the tub should be placed in mortar. Is this just regular mortor mix or should some other type of concrete be used?

What is the recommended consistency?

How much should be used if I have a tub 36x66?

Since this is an alcove shower, there will be a ledger board on three sides. It seems that these boards are not really used for support but rather a guide as to leveling the tub (according to the instructions) and not to be used to support the tub. It seems that the leveling bed should be around 2" thick. Does this sound right? If so then the ledger boards should be set 2" Higher than the bottom of the tub lip correct?

I did read somewhere that something should be placed inside the tub for 24hrs, after setting the tub in the mortor, since the tub will have a tendency to lift out of the mortor. If this is correct, how much weight should you use or what is reccomended to place in the bottom of the tub for weight?

Thanks for you help looking to get this project underway. Gutting the bathroom as we speak.
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Unread 05-19-2006, 08:16 AM   #9
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bump
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Unread 05-19-2006, 09:27 AM   #10
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Kerdi is a vapor barrier. No other is needed. Slit the kraft paper on your insulation.

You can use almost any kind of mortar, but plain old brick mortar or sand mix will work just fine. Mix it somewhat slumpy. You have to make a pile that holds it shape until you press the tub into it. For your tub, one bag should do it, unless ther is more than the standard amount of space between the bottom of the tub and the floor (i.e. if you built a platform for a drop-in tub).

As for the ledger boards, check your instructions again, they may have the measurement already listed. This is especially true for tubs with a front apron.

Once you smoosh the tub down, it won't float up all by itself. Ther are those that recommend filling the tub with water when you caulk, since the floor may settle under the weight.
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Unread 05-19-2006, 10:06 AM   #11
Todds
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bbcamp, its been a long time since my last project. Thanks for the input.

The tub is an Americh. The directions are the same for all of there tubs and I downloaded them off the website so that I can get a preliminary jump on what to expect. http://www.americh.com/support/owner_manual.pdf
I will have the tub delivered next wed. The tub will be an alcove with an integreated tile flange and has no apron. Will be doing a tiled apron.

The directions state the following:

UNITS WITH SUPPORT FEET:
1. If subfloor is not level, some shimming of the tub will be required.
2. Apply a generous amount of construction adhesive to the bottom of the support feet. Set the bath in the desired location.
3. Make sure the bath is level and resting on all support feet (See Figure 1.)

UNITS WITHOUT SUPPORT FEET:
1. Prepare a tub setting bed using lightweight cement, plaster, gypsum or a fix-all bed approximately 1" or 2" thick (See
Figure 2.)
2. Place the tub in the proper position using the floor, not the deck or rim, as the support, and set it in the bedding compound
(See Figure 3.)


I called Tech support and was told my unit has support feet. However, I believe that I have read that it is better to inbed the tub in mud vs. just gluing down the support feet. If I am wrong on this let me know. Also not sure if the subfloor is going to be level or not. My bathroom on the adjoing wall that I previously did was not so I am sure this will be the case here. I will be ripping out the current mud floor this weekend. I would imagine that if the floor is out of level then the use of mud is necessary.

As far as the ledger strips, they don't say as to what height. Lets say the floor is out of level, should they be set to just the measurement height from the floor to the bottom of the tub lip at the highest point of the floor or higher? If higher then how much.
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Unread 05-19-2006, 10:20 AM   #12
bbcamp
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Personally, I think you can worry about this later, like when the tub is delivered, and you can take some measurements.

It may make your life easier to level the floor if it isn't already. Then you can use that as your reference for the ledger and tiled apron, making it exactly as high as the rim is from the floor. Your mortar base (I'd still do that, even with the support feet) will be loose enough to allow the feet to hit the floor (just make a pile in the middle, away from the feet).


Right now, I'd continue with the tear out and worry about something else.
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Unread 05-19-2006, 10:57 AM   #13
Todds
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I know I an getting ahead of myself and don't need to worry about this yet. Just trying to get the answers to all of those questions that I will be asking in the near future .

Well now that you bring up leveling the floor you have touched on another question. Is your suggestion to do an SLC pour across the entire floor to level the entire bathroom?

On my previous bathroom floor floor I put either 1/2" or 5/8" plywood underlayment screwed down to the subfloor, not the joists. I did this to help stiffen the floor. I then thinsetted 1/4" CBU to which I adhered the heat mat. I then did an SLC pour to level the floor just over the heat mat.

Since I will be doing a heated floor here as well, I was planning on the same process. However, I was only going to do these steps outside of the tub area. The only other step I was originally planning to do under the tub was the underlayment step. I figured that the mud was all that was necessary to level the tub (if leveling is necessary). Also, I figured that it would be extremely difficult to keep the SLC from pouring down the hole cut in the floor for the tub plumbing. The hole would need to be large enough to allow for any necessary adjustment once the tub is put into place.
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Unread 05-19-2006, 12:34 PM   #14
bbcamp
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Since you are planning a tiled apron, your tub area will be sufficiently walled off from the rest of the floor to make any leveling option available to you. Building a low dam around the plumbing openings will keep the SLC where it belongs, if you go that route.
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Unread 05-19-2006, 01:08 PM   #15
Todds
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Are you saying to do one SLC pour in the area of the tub and then a separate SLC pour in the area of the Floor? If I did this it would occur at two different times. Is there an advantage to doing the SLC and leveling the floor over just using the mortor method? Or does it depend on by how much the floor is out of level? After I gut the rest of the room this weekend I'll know more as to the out of level conditiion.

While the tub is going to have a tiled apron, I wasn't sure about affixing the front framing before setting the tub. Unlike a drop in tub that has a tiled lip just under the rim of the Tub and a larger fudge margin, the tile in this case is going to be flush with the lip of the front of the tub. In order to figure out how far back to put the front framing I think I need to first make a practice board of sheetrock and some tile. This will get me the exact thickness of the tile, sheetrock & thinset so that I can set the front framing back this distance. This was actually one of the questions/issues I was trying to initially address.

Also, since the tub is in an alcove completely surrounded by walls on three sides, wouldn't it be easier if the front framing wasn't there to only have to lift the tub slightly onto the mortor. I figure I can build the wall ahad of time and screw it into place (or at the very least put it in place) as soon as I set the tub in the mortor.
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