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Unread 02-15-2020, 09:36 AM   #31
ss3964spd
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Sounds like a plan, Brad.

Don't know how the Neodrain integrates with the water proofing but I suspect you've already looked into that.

Main thing that put me off with the Toto carrier is the limited selection of flush plates, but maybe they've added some since last time I looked.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 12:08 PM   #32
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Hey Dan, I did look into how the Neodrain integrates with the waterproofing and China based Neodrain's website is woefully inadequate. I did some digging - and while this isn't the best source of reliable information - I found some info in an Amazon review, posted below.

I asked the GC how he builds his pans and he uses a rubber membrane, so I'm hoping this drain will work, if properly installed.

With regard to the Toto carrier, I agree. I wanted the matte black flush plate offered by Gebeirt, to coordinate with the other matte black fixtures I'll be using. But as you noted, Toto has limited options. So, I chose their square stainless steel plate.

Theoretically, the new Toto EP bowl should be compatible with the 1.28 GPF Geberit system, but Geberit does not yet list the EP on their compatibility list. It's probably too new.

Plus, the angle valve for the bidet seat is positioned to the left of the bowl when installed with the Geberit carrier. The Toto angle valve plumbing is integrated into the carrier and positions the valve underneath the bowl. Not a huge deal, but it helps to keep the associated bidet seat hose out of sight.

I wasn't thrilled about abandoning the Geberit 1.6 GPF system to go with the Toto 1.28 GPF system, but I'm taking a leap of faith that it will perform well.



Info from Neodrain Amazon review:

This nice looking drain is well constructed, but is designed for the traditional shower pan made with a rubber membrane between 2 mud layers rather than a paint-on liquid topical waterproofing method like Hyroban or RedGard. The reason why is because the grate sits flush with the top of the metal trough.

Since you want the drain to be almost flush with your finished tile surface, the top of the trough is also almost flush with the finished tile surface - and the little bit of moisture that gets below the tile via the grout lines will not climb up and over that trough ledge.

So you need to install this drain so the weep holes in the hub can do their job. BTW - the hub is not included with this but the recommended hub is listed in the description.

I really want to use the liquid topical membrane so I plan to use the divot method at the drain hub so the weep holes can still do their job. Note that the divot must encompass the entire linear drain since it cannot be present when the topical membrane is being painted onto the lower drain hub part.

If you really want to use liquid topical membrane, and don't want to mess around so much, don't buy this drain. Instead get one that is designed for topical membranes.

I have not installed this yet so cannot comment on how it works, but given it's nice construction I am sure it will work if it is installed correctly.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 12:49 PM   #33
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The tiles sold under the Home Depot "Restore" brand are manufactured by Daltile. However, they are not the same quality as tile purchased directly through Daltile.

The tile that is made for Home Depot is manufactured at its own facility and the quality controls are different. It's been this way for several years even before they adopted the Restore name.

Until recently, the colors between HD and Dal subway tiles were an exact match. So one could order 3x6 Home Depot subway field tiles and then order the Daltile 0100 bullnose tiles that HD doesn't carry.

In the past year, or so, this has changed and there is a slight variation. So if you mix the two components it will be slightly noticeable which tile came from Dal. At least this was my experience.

The more I learn and talk to people in the industry the more I learn that many of the products that are sold through the box stores aren't quite the same as purchased elsewhere. Shower valves are another one that I won't purchase through HD.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 12:54 PM   #34
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Jim, I'll wager that the trim tiles and the field tiles, all purchased from Dal, are also likely to have the same slight variations in both color and size.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 12:59 PM   #35
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That's never been my experience. Not with the subway tile anyways.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 02:44 PM   #36
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Fortunately, I don't need any trim pieces for this installation. The one place where an edge needs to be finished, I can use the available Restore bullnose. Or - what I will probably do - is cap it with a matte black Schluter Rondec to coordinate with the matte black fixtures.

Incidentally, I realize colors can vary from lot to lot within the same product line, but I brought one of the white Restore 4x16 tiles to the wholesaler and laid it atop the white 4x16 Daltile "Linear" tile that was on the sample board. They were identical in every visual and tactile way I could sense, including the shade of white.

Now, if there is some difference in the way they mix the base material these tile are made from, I can't say.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 05:00 PM   #37
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Personally, while liquid applied waterproofing does work when properly installed, it isn't like painting a house. I much prefer a sheet membrane where the accumulated thickness is sufficient versus trying to paint two coats on without runs, voids, pinholes, or insufficient thickness. Too much is as bad as too little with liquids. Make sure the guy uses a wet film thickness gauge and understands how to use it properly.

Getting a long linear drain to sit flat without warps, bows, or twists means very careful construction techniques and workmanship. Keeping the grate flat over that length so it doesn't rock or sit above the mating surface means things must be made well and then prevented from being damaged in transit. IOW, the longer it is, the harder and more expensive it will be if it's going to work well and look good.

FWIW, haven't seen waterproofing for the divot method mated to a linear drain. Might exist, just haven't seen one.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 05:08 PM   #38
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LOL...I have no idea what the divot method is. But the tile setter that's scheduled to do the job (he's a sub) has a great reputation around here, so I hope he won't move forward with any installation that he's not 100% confident about, without first seeking clarity.

I'll be sure to have further discussion with him about this before that portion gets underway.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 08:11 PM   #39
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Brad, it'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. A moderator can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 08:48 PM   #40
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Okay, sorry. I thought a separate thread was okay for Daltile question. I'll keep everything here moving forward.
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Unread 02-16-2020, 08:35 AM   #41
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It looks like the Schluter Rondec an Jolly profiles in matte black are all special order. The specification sheet for the Daltile subway tile indicates a tile thickness of 5/16".

Should I order the 5/16" profile? Or should I order something a bit "taller," like 3/8"?

They are all special order in matte black and I want to make sure I have this on hand when it's needed.

This will be used to finish the outside edge of the shower wall on the vertical, similar to the picture below.

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Unread 02-16-2020, 09:43 AM   #42
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The 5/16th is what you want for those tiles, Brad.

The thing I'd be worried about is how the matte black finish holds up to being grouted. You might need an unsanded grout.
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Unread 02-16-2020, 09:46 AM   #43
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Once again, Dan; Great info! That's not something I would have considered.

I wonder if the profile could be protected with some quality tape during grouting?

Thanks very much.
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Unread 02-16-2020, 11:01 AM   #44
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I think you could always tape it off if sanded grout was being used.

Brad, is that your tile in the picture?
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Unread 02-16-2020, 11:10 AM   #45
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No Davy, that's just a random picture I found on the 'net to illustrate how I'd like to finish the edge of the shower wall, instead of using bullnose tile on the vertical.

The actual wall tile will be similar. It's 4x16 white Daltile Restore.
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