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Unread 03-05-2013, 09:23 AM   #1
mxracer1983
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Mapei AquaDefense w/ Fabric reinforcement??

Hey guys...I'm a newbie so take it easy on me haha. I've read a lot of threads on here and there's a TON of great information. I have a question that I haven't been able to find on here though.

I was at Menard's this past weekend and they had a Mapei AquaDefense diagram for a custom shower. They had it laid out as follows:

Deck mud mortar bed
Aquadefense
thin set
tile

I called Mapei and the rep told me that this was correct and that the aquadefense replaced the rubber pan liner. He suggested using the fabric reinforcement tape in the cracks and corners too. I was (and still am) skeptical about this after reading on the message boards on this site.

IF this is an appropriate way to build a custom shower, I would do mine this way:

Plastic barrier on the studs w/ CBU on the walls
felt paper
steel lath or mapei lath
mortar bed
fabric reinforced corners/cracks
cover with aquadefense

What do ya'll think?
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Unread 03-05-2013, 11:16 AM   #2
cx
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Welcome, Brian.

Only difference I'm seeing in your method is that you intend to use a moisture barrier behind your CBU walls and a bonded waterproofing membrane on the inside of the same walls, which I think is not a good idea. Either one is fine, both is not.

The use of a bonded waterproofing membrane is a fine method of shower construction and lots of manufactuers make such systems. I, for one, pefer the sheet-type membranes, but the liquid-applied membranes work fine if installed exactly according to the manufacturers instructions, with very special attention to the thickness of the membrane applicaton on every millimeter of the surface and reinforcing material used as recommended or suggested.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-05-2013, 11:21 AM   #3
Richard Tunison
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Hi Brian and welcome to the forum.

You are trying to mix two types of waterproofing systems. There is the traditional install that uses a liner between two mud beds or a membrane type system that is applied to the entire inside of your shower. You want to choose one and install it properly.



If you go the traditional route you will use a standard 3 piece clamping drain. If using a sheet membrane or liquid membrane you will need a drain with an integrated bonding surface such as the Kerdi drain or Hydro Ban drain.

Here is a diagram of a properly built traditional shower if you decide to go that route.
Attached Images
  
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Unread 03-05-2013, 11:56 AM   #4
mxracer1983
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Thanks for the warm welcome!

So...If I decided to go the non-traditional route with the AquaDefense, how thick would you go with one single mud bed? Would you still use the 3 piece drain? Also, would you install the CBU on the walls before you put down your mud bed? You mentioned not using a the plastic and the water proofing together. Would it be okay to use the fabric reinforcement vertically on the corners with the AquaDefense?
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Unread 03-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #5
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Sorry I just thoroughly read the 2nd reply post. I need to use the kerdi drain or the hydro ban with a roll on water membrane...got that part but feel free to answer the other questions
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Unread 03-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #6
Richard Tunison
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CBU then the mud bed. Use the fabric at all corners and seams including the wall to floor seam. From 3/4" to 1 1/4in at the drain. I like 1 1/14in.

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=28637


http://www.laticrete.com/contractors...uctid/146.aspx
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Unread 03-05-2013, 12:37 PM   #7
mxracer1983
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Great information so far guys! Another couple of questions...Should I put down 1/4" CBU on the OSB sub-floor or just put 15# felt with lath? And what method should I use to get the slope correct? Is it possible to use the Mark E goof proof strips?
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Unread 03-05-2013, 01:05 PM   #8
Richard Tunison
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No need for any C.B.U.

Felt, plastic, garbage bags,,,,,,,, anything to keep the plywood from sucking the moisture out of your mud and then lathe. Save some money and do the shaping of the mud bed yourself. You can do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IggmS9Lp7u8
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Unread 03-05-2013, 01:36 PM   #9
mxracer1983
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Alrighty...You've got me pumped up and I'm starting to believe in myself. I think I've got ONE more question but I'm not gonna promise anything lol...Since I'm not using a pan liner to stretch over the curb, how do I consruct the curb correctly with stacked 2x4's?
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Unread 03-05-2013, 01:46 PM   #10
Richard Tunison
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That's the beauty of a topically applied membrane or liquid,,,,,,,, you simply attach your CBU with nails or screws to your well glued and screwed curb and paint away (using fabric again) to make a monolithic, waterproof shower interior.
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Unread 03-05-2013, 02:03 PM   #11
mxracer1983
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AWESOME!! Thanks so much guys...I appreciate all of the advice!
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Unread 03-05-2013, 10:35 PM   #12
jwmezzanotte
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Brian
The last two showers (and more) on my facebook page were done with mud/aquadefence/fabric with wood curb, cement board and aquadefence and fabric.
If a few pictures would help. Im just too tired today to post them up

Folding the fabric with an iron ahead of time helps lots with the corners. Dont have to, but it helps. I think theres some pictures of that on there somewhere as well

I also ripped my 2x4's down to 2-1/2". I didnt want a really wide curb. 2-1/2" wood + 1" cement board + 1" of tile (roughly) is already 4-1/2"+ thats wide enough for me

Last edited by jwmezzanotte; 03-05-2013 at 10:41 PM.
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Unread 03-06-2013, 08:28 AM   #13
mxracer1983
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Thanks for the tips and pictures John! I do have a couple more questions. If I am going to build one or maybe two benches, can I build them with 2x4 studs, cover with CBU, and use the aquadefense and tape as well? Also, I was curious as to why I shouldn't put plastic on my 2x4's AND coat the CBU with aquadefense. Common sense tells me that it may create a "mold sandwich" as I've read on here but I'm just curious. And speaking of that, if you guys had to choose, which would be better 4mm plastic on the studding or aquadefense on the CBU? It's fairly cheap at our local Lowes @ $45.97/gal.
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Unread 03-06-2013, 10:05 AM   #14
Richard Tunison
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Building benches the way you describe with lumber is fine,,,, just do not use treated lumber as it twists and shrinks as it dries.

There is just no reason to use the liner material over the curb,,,,,, besides, what would you tie it into on the shower side? Just go with the liquid and fabric.

Hands down the topically applied liquid or membrane systems are superior to plastic behind the walls. (In my opinion).

Remember to put a little pitch to the drain on the top of your curb so water will not sit against your door frame.
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