Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 10-11-2022, 03:19 PM   #1
fdlrod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Zero Entry Shower - Leaking water into wall

We have a zero entry shower that was just finished about 2 months ago. Recently we noticed the adjacent wall paint was bubbling up and pealing off. Underneath the paint we can feel and see the cement board/corner bead mud is getting wet...

Looking back at pictures during the install I can see the Kerdi Band was a little short in the area and did not wrap to the end of the shower door...


What are some of the options to go back and fix the leaking shower pan and bathroom floor shower transition to stop the water from leaking down to the subfloor and getting into the adjacent wall?
__________________
Rodney

Last edited by fdlrod; 10-12-2022 at 05:46 AM.
fdlrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 10-11-2022, 03:31 PM   #2
Lazarus
Texas Tile Contractor
 
Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beaumont, Texas
Posts: 8,776
Sorry, your attachments aren't showing up. Did you use the paperclip icon to attach them from your computer?
__________________
They didn't want it good, they wanted it Wednesday.
Lazarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-12-2022, 05:51 AM   #3
fdlrod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Yes, I used the paperclip and attached to the post. Not sure what I am doing wrong. Here are some direct links to the photos.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiuQT3ekZROEgZMg...9B5qQ?e=blV8Hs

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiuQT3ekZROEgZMe...mi2nQ?e=U5GJmF

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiuQT3ekZROEgZMf...4svwQ?e=zn8fBN
__________________
Rodney
fdlrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-12-2022, 06:53 AM   #4
Dan Marvin
Company Rep
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 41
Where the Kerdi-band stops is where your waterproofing stops. You would have to treat that outside corner (and the floor below it) as part of the shower with Kerdi or Kerdiboard to truly keep the water contained and out of the gypsum board/studs. We typically recommend extending the waterproofing to wherever water might be reasonably expected for this type of shower. That makes me wonder what is under the floor tile immediately outside of the shower. If it's plywood or OSB, there may be bigger issues lurking. The fix is going to be to remove the tiles at the doorway and out into the room without disturbing the existing waterproofing and then extending the waterproofing in all directions to wherever water is reaching. It's not a quick or easy fix unfortunately.
__________________
Dan - Schluter Systems
Dan Marvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-13-2022, 02:33 PM   #5
Snets
Professional Weekend Warrior
 
Snets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 679
Maybe it's just the way the photo is taken, but that looks like WAY too much thinset mortar under that Kerdi Band. I'm not sure you will achieve a waterproof seam with that much thinset in there, looks very sloppy.
Snets is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2022, 04:40 PM   #6
fdlrod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Dan,
Thanks for your feedback. Since our original post, the grout that was in the change of plane joint between the wall and the floor tile was removed and replaced with caulk. This seems to have solved the issues with water in the adjacent drywall wall. It most likely was coming down the wall, getting behind the poor caulk job and then running the grout/caulk around the edge until the water found a place to exit, into the drywall wall.

Although we have stopped the water from getting into the wall, I am concerned with long term water proofing of the bathroom wall and shower. Based on what you are suggesting, and I agree, we remove the titles that are in the shower and some outside the shower so proper Kerdi Band can seal up the wall to floor seam/joint.

Snets,
As far as the Kerdi Band I am not an expert, but when I had seen the Kerdi waterproofing I felt the same as what you indicated. So, question, how does Kerdi "seal" up at the joints? That was always a mystery to me, does the thinset do the sealing or the Kerdi band or both together? Does the Kerdi band have to "touch" the shower floor pan and the wall board and adjacent Kerdi band? Or can the thinset "bridge" the gap?

Name:  Wall getting Wet, Need for Better Kerdi Band.jpg
Views: 148
Size:  71.5 KB


Thank you,
__________________
Rodney
fdlrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2022, 10:45 AM   #7
Snets
Professional Weekend Warrior
 
Snets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdlrod
Snets,
As far as the Kerdi Band I am not an expert, but when I had seen the Kerdi waterproofing I felt the same as what you indicated. So, question, how does Kerdi "seal" up at the joints? That was always a mystery to me, does the thinset do the sealing or the Kerdi band or both together? Does the Kerdi band have to "touch" the shower floor pan and the wall board and adjacent Kerdi band? Or can the thinset "bridge" the gap?
The first thing you have to remember is that thin-set mortar is not waterproof. So the mortar does not do the waterproofing. What the mortar does in a Kerdi application is mechanically bond the two sides. In order to properly bond both sides, the applied thin-set mortar needs to be squeezed out while pressing the two sides together, forming that mechanical bond (mortar and fleece from both sides all smashed together, embedded in thin-set mortar) in a two-inch overlap.

Too much thin-set mortar between the two sides is simply a layer of Kerdi on either side of a thin layer of non-waterproof mortar.
Snets is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2022, 11:55 AM   #8
fdlrod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
John (Snets),

Thanks for the explanation on the Kerdi band. Here is another picture before the title was installed...
Name:  Kerdi Band zero entry shower.jpg
Views: 140
Size:  54.7 KB
Understood now that the thinset is not waterproof, and you need the Kerdi fleece to be touching the Schluter shower fleece pan.
  1. How far should the Kerdi extend outside the shower/wet area?
  2. It doesn't appear the Kerdi band is tight to the Schluter shower pan, is that an issue?
  3. Will Kerdi waterproof between the Schluter shower pan and the Ditra floor #5 & #8?
Name:  Recessed Curbless Shower Install Instructions.jpg
Views: 136
Size:  42.3 KB
Here is the damage to the adjacent drywall wall...
Name:  Wet Wall.jpg
Views: 136
Size:  59.5 KB
__________________
Rodney

Last edited by fdlrod; 11-16-2022 at 02:54 PM.
fdlrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2022, 04:26 PM   #9
fdlrod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Here are more pictures of the Kerdi ban before title was placed over the top.

Name:  Kerdi Band Watter Proof Shower Pan 20220621.jpg
Views: 106
Size:  50.5 KB

Name:  Shower Floor Entrance 20220621.jpg
Views: 114
Size:  89.4 KB
__________________
Rodney
fdlrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-18-2022, 07:31 AM   #10
fdlrod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Here is a drawing showing the shower and shower / bathroom entrance. This is a second-floor bathroom. The intent is to have a completely waterproof 2nd floor bathroom, for example if the toilet overflows, the entire floor is pitched ever so slightly towards the shower drain.

Reviewing the Schluter shower installation manual, I see the following notes...
Where a waterproof floor adjacent to the shower is desired, DITRA or DITRAHEAT uncoupling membranes shall be installed. Floor/wall connections shall be sealed with KERDI-BAND.

Name:  Shower Drawing.jpg
Views: 106
Size:  17.9 KB

Question, how many tiles should I pull up around the shower entrance to install Kerdi-Band to prevent water from entering the drywall?
Name:  Drywall Damage 20221013.jpg
Views: 104
Size:  53.7 KB
__________________
Rodney
fdlrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-18-2022, 09:22 AM   #11
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,471
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
Rodney, the caption in one photo indicates that while showering water on the floor is well away from area in question, and another caption says there is seldom any water near the area in question. Is the shower head at the far end of the stall? what size is the stall? Guess I'm struggling to understand how enough water could be getting all the way down there to cause a problem.

Regardless, is there in fact Ditra under the black floor tile? If so, Kerdi band should have been installed on the floor so that it covers the gap between where the shower pan ends and the Ditra begins, and the band on that wall should have extended to the end of the corner, and perhaps even wrap around the end.

In order to do that some wall tile and floor tile would need to be removed. The challenge there is removing the wall tile is likely to damage the Kerdi, and it's difficult to replace/patch any damaged sections.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-18-2022, 04:51 PM   #12
fdlrod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Dan,

You have a great question, the very thing we have been trying to determine, how did water run all the way over to that wall and damage the drywall, about 4 to 5 feet run. Our theory was the water ran along the top of the grout and behind a thin layer of caulk. We removed this thin layer of caulk & grout and installed caulk only in the change of plane between the shower floor and shower wall. This stopped the drywall from getting wet. We think the water was following all the way around the base until it came out at the drywall.

I added more details to the drawing...
Name:  Shower Drawing.jpg
Views: 95
Size:  21.9 KB

Thank you,
Rodney
__________________
Rodney
fdlrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-21-2022, 02:14 PM   #13
fdlrod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
How is Ditra waterproofed? The kerdi band is pressed tight to the "ridge" or high spot on the Ditra cavities so that water can't pass around/through this seam?

Name:  Ditra and Kerdi Band.jpg
Views: 74
Size:  26.1 KB

Ditra Install Waterproofing.pdf
__________________
Rodney
fdlrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-21-2022, 03:11 PM   #14
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,424
Your link shows how the product manufacturer intends that you make the Ditra installation waterproof, Rodney. What am I missing?
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New shower leaking when drain is saturated with water aab173 Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 05-23-2018 11:27 PM
Water leaking outside from window in shower - pics included spta97 Tile Forum/Advice Board 18 07-01-2015 02:06 PM
Leaking shower wall rglassband Tile Forum/Advice Board 59 11-10-2010 07:34 PM
Water seeping out from under shower pan... drain leaking? momisana Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 05-11-2009 08:32 PM
Water leaking from behind shower head wall DeniseS Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 03-01-2005 06:17 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:18 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC