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Unread 10-12-2022, 06:48 PM   #16
cx
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Originally Posted by Sean
On the other hand, it seems like if you used both a wall-channel and a floor-channel, then you had best be bang-on the installation of the two channels being exactly square with one another, since a glass panel wouldn't tolerate at all the two channels not being square..does that sound right?
You always want to try to have everything plumb, level, and square, Sean, but when your glass company comes to measure for your glass, they will make it to fit the opening. Most are very good at that.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-12-2022, 10:08 PM   #17
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You always want to try to have everything plumb, level, and square, Sean, but when your glass company comes to measure for your glass, they will make it to fit the opening. Most are very good at that.
I understand that everything should be made as level/plumb/square as possible, and will certainly be striving for that. I do however want to fully understand the unique requirements introduced by different design decisions.

In what I imagine is a "traditional" glass installation done on top of finished tile with clips drilled in after tiling secured into blocking, I would imagine that as long as the walls and floor are flat, the glass company can cut a non-square piece of glass and the glass will be installed plumb, and most people walking in the room will never notice. I imagine the biggest risk here is a wall/floor that are bowed.

With the channel method, however, the glass installer is constrained by where you put the channels. Even if the walls are 100% flat, plumb, and level, and square if you put the floor profile in dead square to the wall, but you put the wall profile in and its at 89 degrees instead of 90 to the floor, will a glass panel still fit? what about 87 degrees?

Thanks again!
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Unread 10-13-2022, 08:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Sean
...if you put the floor profile in dead square to the wall, but you put the wall profile in and its at 89 degrees instead of 90 to the floor,..
Mmmmmm, not sure how you'd do that, Sean. If the floor is square to the wall, the wall is gonna be square to the floor, non?

In any event, if the glass is cut to fit the opening, it will fit, whether there is a channel there or not.

I make it a little easier to install such fixed glass panels, which I generally do myself, by not using the channel at all. Just tile the inside of the shower, leaving off the row that will be outside the glass, install the glass, then install the outside row of tile. The size and shape of the glass is basically the same as if using the channels. I can also install three-sided panels that way a good deal more easily.

But, again, if you present your glass company a finished shower with the channels in place, they should be able to measure and install the glass without issue.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-13-2022, 02:33 PM   #19
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Mmmmmm, not sure how you'd do that, Sean. If the floor is square to the wall, the wall is gonna be square to the floor, non?
Sorry I didn't do a good job of explaining myself. Here's a picture (imagine the wall and floor are square to each other:

So lets say the last course of tile I totally bungle and the grout line isn't dead vertical. I really exaggerated the picture to make it obvious, but you get the picture. In a traditional glass installation with clips drilled into tile, the glas installer can ignore the off-square grout line and install a piece of glass that is plumb.

If there is a channel embedded in that last course of tile, then it seems there is a point at which a flat piece of glass will not fit into the two channel simultaneously, regardless of how much an installer is willing to cut it off-square. This would happen because the floor channel is trying to force the glass to be plumb, while the wall channel is trying to force the glass to be off-plumb. Does this make sense? Obviously I wouldn't F it up this bad, but I'm trying to figure out how sensitive a two-channel approach to this kind of error. If i'm off 1/8 inch over 8 feet, am I screwed? 1/16? 1/2?
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Unread 10-13-2022, 07:02 PM   #20
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OK, good visual there. Now I understand the question. The wall is plumb, but the glass plane is not.

I've not used the Schluter glass channel, but I'd wager it would accommodate what you show in your picture. You would, of course, try to avoid that, and have your wall channel parallel to your wall grout lines, which would, hopefully, be plumb.

But if they were a little out of plumb, the glass panel would still fit, but you'd have a problem with the operating panel that was attached to it or adjacent to it. If there is no such operating panel, or fixed adjacent panel, you'd likely never notice a minor out-of-plumb condition.

Bottom line: You really want that wall channel plumb in both vertical planes.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-14-2022, 06:09 AM   #21
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The channel on the Deco-SG for 3/8in glass is 1/2 in wide so the is plenty of wiggle room. Use a laser level to install the channel and tile up to it. I put my channel up and taped it to the wall and removed tape as I tiled up the wall.
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Unread 10-14-2022, 07:02 AM   #22
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nice idea, thanks guys!

now i'm debating if I want to use the deco-sg as the finished edge and just end the tile at the fixed glass panel, or if I should continue for a course pastt he panel.

Phil in your photo I saw you still used clips in the glass on the pony wall...is that because its so far away from the showerhead you weren't worried about drilling through the waterproof layer at that point, or because the only way to get a channel in that would have been to use two solid surface pieces instead of one? In my design the pony wall runs parallel with the shower so I'm a little more worried about the pony wall being 100% waterproof.

On that note, what kind of materials do people use for those kind of solid surface pieces? I've seen a lot of posts here about *not* to use marble, so is granite the standard?
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Unread 10-14-2022, 09:50 AM   #23
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I used clips because it would have required two pieces. Do not let them go through your waterproof layer if you use clips. Our pony wall is topped with 2cm quartz that matches the vanity top and is sloped towards the shower area.
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Unread 10-14-2022, 10:16 AM   #24
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@Phil what kind of screws would they use if they don't go through the waterproof layer? Is it grabbing onto the quartz block only?

Dumb question: would a quartz provider be able to provide a block like that with a trench pre-drilled, or is this something that could be done with a woodworking router with a special bit? Is that a terrible idea?
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Unread 10-14-2022, 06:14 PM   #25
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screws - I dont know, for a good tile installer that would be a normal install. Maybe using epoxy to hold them in.
trench - I would think that would be possible for a fabricator, I would not want to try it.
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Unread 10-18-2022, 09:05 AM   #26
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Sean, the glass installer should drill the holes only to a depth that won't go through the water proofing layer, then cut the bracket mounting screws short so they don't, either. They'd then fill the holes with epoxy, coat the bottom of the bracket with either silicone or epoxy, place the bracket, dab the screw hole of the bracket with silicone, drop the screw in, set the glass.

Remember the brackets are not really supporting/holding the weight of the glass, they're only preventing movement fore and aft.
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Unread 11-26-2022, 11:32 AM   #27
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Thanks for all the help guys, I've started acquiring materials and getting more into the weeds.

In particular I've been thinking about the substrate transition from kerdi-board to drywall on the edges of the shower. I included a couple photos below.



1) In the first one, I think the transition makes sense to do right at the glass, with kerdiband extending the waterproofing another 2.5 inches past the glass. Is this sufficient? Any reason to use a material other than greenboard? If this is an area of concern happy to use cementboard or something else. Does the answer change if the tile extends past the glass, vs being terminated with a schluter deco-sg profile right at the glass?

2) In the second one, I was originally thinking about also terminating right at the glass, but then was wondering if since the thinset underneath the cap of the pony-wall will potentially saturate and wick moisture outside of the glass panel, if I should make sure to extend the waterproofing 2.5 inches past the *outside-corner* of the pony wall, instead of 2.5 inches past the glass panel.

3) I'm currently planning on taking kerdiboard up to the ceiling on the walls. What material is recommended for the ceiling? I'm not planning on tiling the ceiling, so it will be painted. Is MR greenboard sufficient, or will it deteriorate with time?

Thanks!
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Unread 11-26-2022, 11:55 AM   #28
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Sean, it'll help if you'll post those photos as attachments from storage on your computer (as you have previously) so they appear in your post and don't disappear later when the third-party storage facility changes the URL, or whatever.
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Unread 11-26-2022, 02:27 PM   #29
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Done! just edited the post above, good suggestion
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Unread 11-26-2022, 04:08 PM   #30
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Sean,

1) The 2.5" of band pass the glass will be fine, but if you do not extend the tile over the band, how would you finish the band? As well, if the tile stops at the edge of the glass there won't be any room for the clips to hold the glass. You could install the glass into a vertical channel on the wall, so long as there is some framing behind it to screw it into. Then the channel will be visible, and you'd need to caulk the necessary gap between the side of the channel and the edge of the tile.

2) I would, and did, extend tile to the outside edge of the pony wall cap, see above regarding clips and channel. The pony wall cap should have the water proofing covering the width of the tile (cap) backer, and the cap should be sloped towards the drain.

3) No need for green board, plain old white drywall is fine. Green board won't hurt, but it doesn't seem to take primer/paint as nicely as does plain drywall. finish the joints with drywall compound, and hit the compound on the walls with a coat of primer, which will reduce the amount of moisture drawn out of the tile mortar.
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