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Unread 11-21-2022, 02:07 AM   #1
CgarSmokr
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Slope the edge or not?

With a curbed shower, importance has been placed on having an appropriate slope of the top of the curb towards the shower. Would the same principle apply to the balance of the shower receptor edges?

Installed a KBRS Showerslope which has an approximately 2" wide level top surface around the outer edge of the other three sides. So the top is flat out about two inches before the slope to the drain begins. Will this pose a problem with possible moisture collection under tile and mortar laid over the flat edges of the pan, whether a slope is built in with thinset under the tile or not? I'm concerned about moisture collecting underneath the tile mortar around the edges and creating damp spots and potentially mold.

The receptor has, supposedly, an impervious top surface, and clamping type drain which has weep holes and channels. I'm assuming moisture can potentially get through the tile/grout to the top surface of the receptor, then run down to the drain area. KBRS furnished no instructions as to how to accommodate this moisture at the drain area, other than filling the recessed area with thin set mortar when tiling. Videos have shown it is supposed to be done this way. It seems this would prevent moisture from escaping to the drain. Should a bed of some granular material be placed in the recess around the drain prior to thin set mortar for tiling? I am also concerned about having adequate support for the tile in the drain area.

I intend on using honed Carrara White Marble Mosaic Tile, about 1" X 1" X 10MM. This shower will not see heavy use. Instructions say "Mosaics containing natural stone should be sealed after installation and before grouting to avoid discoloration from grouting process." My main concern here is will sealing (with Miracle 511) prevent grout from adhering strongly to the tile? Would I be wise to use an epoxy grout? The tile is honed, white with a lot of gray, and goes well with the selected porcelain wall tiles. I would welcome opinions and advice from Professionals and others with a lot of tile laying experience. Thank you.
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Unread 11-22-2022, 11:54 PM   #2
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What, No Help, No Opinions?

Geez guys, and gals, 63 "views" and no responses? What did I say wrong? Did I offend someone? CX, I figured I would at least hear something from you. Perhaps no one on here has a good answer? My main concern is filling in under the tiles around the flat perimeter edge.

Re: the Marble, I've read every post on here going back about five years having anything to do with Marble. Perhaps to minimize the potential problems Marble can present I may just go with a Porcelain mosaic.
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Unread 11-23-2022, 07:59 AM   #3
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per code the 1/4" pf slope is to run to the corners. To me, this would mean that there should not be a flat spot.
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Unread 11-23-2022, 08:46 AM   #4
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Given the 2" wide flat perimeter, it seems to me that even if you sloped the tile with mortar water will get through the tile and grout, soak into the mortar, and possibly just sit on that little shelf. Will likely dry after a while, and since this won't be an always in use shower maybe that's ok.

I'd be reluctant to use an epoxy grout with the marble tile, the resins may leach into the marble and permanently stain it. 5-sided sealing might help, or might not, and I'm not sure how one would even accomplish 5-sided sealing effectively with a sheet mounted mosaic. In any case you'd definitely want to test it first.

I think I understand the drain issue. Sounds like KBRS is instructing installers to simply pack the recess with thinset mortar and, if it is a typical clamping drain with weep holes, those would get packed (closed) too. Maybe gravel is the answer, but is the recess even deep enough to fill with gravel and also a thick enough layer of thinset mortar to keep the gravel from shifting while also supporting the tile?
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Unread 11-23-2022, 10:00 AM   #5
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Not ignoring you, Gary. I just find so much wrong in general with KBRS products that I hesitate to get involved in the discussion. I've not seen the particular receptor you have, and I've not seen any of their products for some years.
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Originally Posted by e3
per code the 1/4" pf slope is to run to the corners. To me, this would mean that there should not be a flat spot.
I almost agree with Eric above, but not about flat. There should be flat slopes to the drain from all parts of the receptor, but no level places at all. We (mostly I? ) harp on that regularly when counseling folks on creating mortar shower floors. The required slope of a minimum 1/4" per horizontal foot must be measured from the farthest corner of the shower footprint so that there are no places where there is less, or no, slope.

Why a manufacturer of tileable shower receptor products would do otherwise is a bit of a mystery to me. Similar to foam receptor base manufacturers making their entire slopes less than the industry requiement. They do it. People buy them anyway. Nobody cares, I suppose.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Last edited by cx; 11-23-2022 at 10:26 AM. Reason: typo
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Unread 11-29-2022, 01:54 AM   #6
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Concerns satisfied --- Flat but NOT Level!

Eric, Dan, and CX, thanks for your responses---much appreciated.

As e3 stated, "per code the 1/4" pf slope is to run to the corners. To me, this would mean that there should not be a flat spot."

Then as Dan (ss3964spd) stated:
"Given the 2" wide flat perimeter, it seems to me that even if you sloped the tile with mortar water will get through the tile and grout, soak into the mortar, and possibly just sit on that little shelf. Will likely dry after a while, and since this won't be an always in use shower maybe that's ok."

My concern was the lack of slope around the perimeter, the fact that it was 'level', not sloped. Thanks CX for providing the more appropriate terminology in that "There should be flat slopes to the drain from all parts of the receptor, but no [b]level[b] places at all." Therefore, I guess I should fill in the "wedge" around the perimeter with something like epoxy to continue the slope to all the walls and corners prior to setting the tile.

Dan, you stated: "I'd be reluctant to use an epoxy grout with the marble tile, the resins may leach into the marble and permanently stain it. 5-sided sealing might help, or might not, and I'm not sure how one would even accomplish 5-sided sealing effectively with a sheet mounted mosaic. In any case you'd definitely want to test it first."

I was considering five-sided sealing by immersing sheets, upside down, individually in sealant in a tray, the depth of the tile thickness so as not to wet the bottom and have the mesh loosen. Mfr. says to treat tile after setting, and again after grouting. I figured immersing the tiles to be much easier to effectively seal the sides. My concern is will this prohibit the grout from adhering well to the tile? Also considering just topical sealing after grouting.

And Dan, you echoed my concerns with the drain. I'm quite sure a layer of pea gravel will still allow me about 1" of mortar under the drain top and surrounding tile, which I would think is adequate for support.
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Unread 11-29-2022, 02:59 PM   #7
jadnashua
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One thing to be aware of with sealers...if you don't buff off any excess before it dries or gets absorbed after sitting the specified time, it can leave spots on the tile that are a pain to get off again.
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Unread 11-30-2022, 06:51 PM   #8
CgarSmokr
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Excess Sealant

Thanks Jim for the cautionary. That's one thing (excessive spots of sealant) that just about every article on sealing tile/stone that I have read makes a point about.
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Unread 11-30-2022, 11:23 PM   #9
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In the first shower I built, I have a perimeter framing of tiles cut from 12X12 field tiles surrounding the mosaic 2x2 tile shower floor (link in my profile, page 9 of the thread). I did not get those perimeter tiles sloped enough, not sure if it was my setting technique or the pan slope - regardless, they hold water until the shower dries. So there is some "soap scum" that accumulates on those rather "flat" tiles but in all, it works.

I did use epoxy grout in this particular shower so I doubt much water gets under the tile, down to the Kerdi membrane. I'd imagine IF that 2" perimeter you have IS in fact level, and not sloped toward the walls, you may be OK but I cringe at using natural marble in a shower floor - so many porcelains that look exactly the same and will not discolor, rust, stain, etc.
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Unread 12-02-2022, 03:15 AM   #10
CgarSmokr
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John, I had thought of possibly doing exactly what you said, putting down a 'border' around the edge, setting them with a slope. However, I was thinking of filling in the level perimeter edges with like a 'wedge' of mortar so the slope coincides with the rest of the shower floor and doing it prior to setting the floor tile. Possibly epoxy to hopefully keep water from settling under it? After giving it a couple days to cure, then thinset the tile down. Or possibly a cement based grout and then coating with a barrier prior to tiling.

Yea, I'm somewhat apprehensive about the marble, but I don't think I can return it any longer at this point, so will probably just go with it. Thanks.
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Last edited by cx; 12-02-2022 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Correct Underline
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