Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 06-24-2014, 07:46 PM   #1
Mike W.
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1
dry pack mud vs. wet concrete

I'm sure this has been covered but, if you have the time to allow concrete to cure, why not use wet mud for a shower floor? I feel more confident shaping the bowl for pitch to the drain and getting the height just right at the perimeter of the shower and at the drain so as to accept the tile for a nice flush installation. Clearly, I'm not a tile contractor. I know they all use dry pack mud. But, I'm a carpenter and I *think* I can control the media better with wet. More time to work it and you can "cut it" down with a screed easily and then trowel it. If the only down side to wet is shrinkage BUT you have plenty of time for it to cure (I'll do other stuff for a few days) then why not? Thanks for any advice that comes my way.
__________________
Mike
Mike W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 06-24-2014, 07:56 PM   #2
wilobe
Jerry & Susan
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 45
What type drain and water proofing are you intending to use?
__________________
Jerry
wilobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-24-2014, 08:02 PM   #3
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,430
Welcome, Mike.

Shrinkage, cracking, too dense to allow moisture to pass through readily but porous enough to allow it to become saturated, much, much more difficult to shape into a flat slope, more difficult to create the accurate height at both drain and perimeter, are a few of the reasons that spring to my mind.

Even aside from the functionality of the two materials, I'd hafta bet against you every time and in favor of a good deck mud man as to the accuracy and flatness of your respective sloped floors.

But I've bet wrong before.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2014, 10:01 AM   #4
Art of Stone
VP of Technical and Training MLT System
 
Art of Stone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 471
I think you're taking a very safe bet there CX.

I am led to believe you have not had the fortunate opportunity, to learn the art of making exactly what you want from a good mud man, Mike. There is no comparison to being able to "sculpt" the planes you want versus pouring and troweling. Once you know how to properly work a dry mud bed planes, shapes and contours are done easily.

For wet areas a dry bed is a much safer way to ensure proper drainage of moisture.

If you focus much of your efforts and income towards tile, to fully understand the answers to your question, would serve you well.

I'd suggest learning more about the NTCA and what they have to offer and/or, finding a "Good" mud man to work with and learn from. What you would come to learn would likely open a new realm of the tile world to you.

Just my 2 cents.
__________________
Ernie
---------
Lay 'em Right

“Vision without execution is hallucination.”

― Thomas A. Edison

http://www.mltsystem.com
Art of Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2014, 11:48 AM   #5
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 15,176
In a conventional shower pan, concrete would be very problematic - it is too dense, even if you could shape it the way you want. Neither the tile nor the grout are waterproof, and moisture will get beneath it. Deck mud is porous, and will allow that moisture to flow down the slope to the weep holes of the drain...concrete won't. Once the concrete gets wet, it will stay that way unless you do not use the shower for a very long time, leading to wet grout lines, and the potential for them to now grow mold and mildew (mold takes three things, cut off any one and you stop it: moisture, food, and the spores - the only one easily controlled is moisture). If you were using a surface applied bonded membrane, you might get away with it, but deck mud would still be easier and cheaper.

Deck mud is sort of like playing with wet beach sand...you place it where you want it, compact it, and can still 'shave' a bit off for final shape refinement.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2014, 04:00 PM   #6
lou432
Tile Man -- Southern New Hampsire
 
lou432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 1,233
I must admit 30 plus years in the flooring trades and when I started to truly learn tile 20 plus years ago I was introduced to deck mud and the 100 plus showers i did prior to that was all wet concrete cause the guy that I was working with only knew wet concrete so thats what I knew . then i wanted to separate myself from him and others in my area doing it the same way so I started to educate myself and did a stint down at the CTEF and learned a bit of everything including deck mud.
What a difference and I must concur with all reply`s Deck Mud is so much easier and better for the application!!!
Deck Mud all the way!!
__________________
Louis

White sand+ blue water .
Find the grace in things that you can`t change, and help some body if you can!
"Van Zant"
I`d rather be on my Harley thinking about God than in Church thinking about my Harley .

My Tile Work Pictures
lou432 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2014, 04:04 PM   #7
Art of Stone
VP of Technical and Training MLT System
 
Art of Stone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 471
I believe there is higher risk of efflorescence and/or grout lines that are not uniform in color when using a wet set, as well.
__________________
Ernie
---------
Lay 'em Right

“Vision without execution is hallucination.”

― Thomas A. Edison

http://www.mltsystem.com
Art of Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2014, 07:27 PM   #8
Jim Cordes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 728
Its not about letting it set for a few days..unless by a "few" you mean 28 days?

All the above as for good reasons.. and trust me there are still more goods reasons not mentioned yet. Now is there even one good reason to not use deck mud?

Try it out, it really is not that hard, if you can do concrete you can do deck mud, its is inherently different but in a easy way..just like playing with sand at the beach.
__________________
Jim
Jim Cordes is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-26-2014, 12:24 AM   #9
jwmezzanotte
Registered User
 
jwmezzanotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince Rupert BC Canada
Posts: 2,144
Im a Carpenter as well, but have lots of experience placing finishin concrete. Have done many pours into the thousands of sqft on my own (onviously with helpers) and have worked alongside other crews doing 5-10,000 sqft pours.

Im pretty comfortable with concrete.
Shaping deck mud is easier, no comparasin.

And if your concerned that it wont be strong enough (i was at first) try a sample, check it out the next day. You'll see, will be plenty hard.

Just make sure its mixed evenly (no sand clumps) and packed well. Give it a pass with a steel trowel when your done shaping. You'll never look back.

Also if your going to do a lot of pans, get a bucket mortar mixer. You'll love it, perfect for shower pans! Easy/clean/quick mixing.
jwmezzanotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deck mud/Dry Pack Bech Tile Forum/Advice Board 9 06-30-2011 04:52 PM
Deck Mud / Dry Pack as screed guide for concrete? mt50u1 Tile Forum/Advice Board 13 06-07-2011 03:38 PM
Deck Mud (Dry Pack) Curing gatien3030 Tile Forum/Advice Board 9 11-09-2009 01:41 PM
Deck Mud (dry pack) request for info?? lmcpug Professionals' Hangout 3 09-17-2009 06:17 PM
Dry mud pack to raise step? JennTile Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 04-22-2009 05:33 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:08 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC