Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 06-21-2004, 09:40 AM   #1
adrian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 125
use of layout lines

I tiled my floor this weekend and am due to tile the walls soon. The floor was over DITRA and I layed out using a sharpie. I made a story stick with marks for tile separations to aid in layout. However, when it came time to actually lay tiles I had two problems: my layout lines quickly disappeared beneath the thinset and didn't help me much in layout, and when I could see them, it became apparent that I wasn't staying as close to them as I would have expected. (Like I was 1/8" off when I was only 1/3 of the way across the 5 ft long floor.) I ended up relying almost entirely on the little tile spacers and hoping that the gap at the wall and tub won't be too noticeable...

Now the walls are hardibacker, and I could lay out with chalk. But it seems like as soon as I moisten the hardibacker I'm going to wipe out my lines. And in any case, I suspect that gravity is going to make me follow the tile spacers regardless of any layout lines I may have drawn. So does this mean that anything beyond a rough layout is a waste of time? That I should wait to drill holes and cut tiles until I actually tile up to the area in question? Because if I cut tiles for the ceiling and then get up there and find out I'm off by 1/2" I'm going to have to recut them all, or I could end up needing little skinny strips of tile at the top.
adrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 06-21-2004, 12:51 PM   #2
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rosanky, Texas
Posts: 68,340
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
Yes, you are right, Adrian. Support the tiles as they go up the wall and use your level to ckeck for plumb and level. Don't make any cuts until you need to.
John Bridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-21-2004, 01:23 PM   #3
adrian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 125
But if I just start at the floor/tub and go up I might find when I reach the ceiling that I need to use the dreaded skinnies to complete the wall. Or I might encounter some other unexpected layout problem. Is it better to put full tiles above the tub or full tiles above the floor? (Or is it really an aesthetic toss up?)

What is the best way to support the tiles at the bottom? I read about using wedges, but I can't find any for sale. (Should I look harder?)
adrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-21-2004, 01:31 PM   #4
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rosanky, Texas
Posts: 68,340
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
The plastic wedges are usually sold at tile companies.

You can figure a rough layout by laying a row of tiles on the floor and measuring. It it looks like there is a chance of having skinnies near the ceiling, cut the tiles above the tub. Start out with about 2/3 of a tile there to increase the size of the cuts at the ceiling.
John Bridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-21-2004, 02:02 PM   #5
adrian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 125
What do you do to hold up tiles that aren't over something (such as tiles over a hole for a medicine cabinet).
adrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-21-2004, 04:16 PM   #6
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rosanky, Texas
Posts: 68,340
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
Well, you either have to rig up a little temporary shore or you tape the tiles to those adjacent to them and put spacers between them. I use a lot of cheap masking tape when I build and tile a shower.
Attached Images
 
John Bridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2004, 10:37 AM   #7
adrian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 125
I have three places where I'm going to have a 3 feet wide space of unsupported tiles and I really don't think I can hold them up with masking tape.

Would the temporary shore be something like a piece of wood? Around my medicine cabinet space I could attach extra wood to the framing so the wood sticks out, for example. But that wouldn't work above the window.
adrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2004, 11:47 AM   #8
Scooter
Remodeler -- Southern Cal.
 
Scooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 4,345
My tricks:

1. The day before I lay tile, if I have a verticle surface and can't use tile boxes or a 1x to support the lower row, I set the 2nd or 3rd row with a 1x4 just tacked into place. The next day, I pull off the 1x and tile away, covering the holes with thinset.

2. The layout lines are critical, and are never to be covered up. I'll use the flat edge of the knotched trowel to make sure that the thinset goes the other direction before combing it out.

The fact that there might not be any thinset for a sixtheeth of an inch on either side of the edge of a row of tiles does not concern me. I don't layout every row, perhaps every other row or every third row, depends on the tile and the grout line thickness. Wider grout lines are more forgiving, and hence every third row might be enough; porceline tiles are very uniform and hence also very forgiving, Salito tiles, which I hate, are not. But if I am using sheets of mosiac with 16th inch grout lines, well, each sheet is laid out, and yes, there might be a half dozen tiles at the edge of the sheet that are might have an sixteeth of an inch either side of the grout line that is lacking thinset. No big deal
__________________
Scooter
"Sir, I May Be Drunk, But You're Crazy, and I'll Be Sober Tomorrow"
WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Scooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2004, 12:19 PM   #9
adrian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 125
This approach seems to be at odds with the advice earlier in the thread to avoid relying on layout lines. As I wrote earlier, I laid out as carefully as a could using a story stick marked off in widths of tile+grout, but when it came to setting the tiles, they didn't follow my lines. On the wall, the tiles are going to follow my spacers and ignore any lines I may have been trying to follow, so I'm really skeptical that I'll be able to mark where tiles are going to be and have it come out right. Maybe there's some way I could tile up to the unsupported locations and then install the board. I could probably make that work. Then I'd have to come back the next day and put in a couple tiles here and there.

I'm not sure I can make it work over the window, though, because I don't want to have to set some of the mitered tiles without setting all of them. Will my 2 degree incline cause the tiles to float off the ledge?
adrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2004, 05:59 PM   #10
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rosanky, Texas
Posts: 68,340
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
Adrian, I really don't know how I can help. You are going to have to devise some way to temporarily hold up the tiles while they set. I set vertical surfaces with a level. I might make a layout line up the middle or somewhere else, but I might not. Figure it out, buddy. Get going.
John Bridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-28-2004, 08:36 AM   #11
adrian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 125
Well, I started setting wall tiles this weekend and it is going (a lot) slower than I expected or hoped, but it seems to be going ok other than that. I have a plan for most of the unsupported areas: add extra pieces of wood to support the tiles, but I haven't reached those spots yet. That'll be next weekend. The one area I'm really uncertain about is the window where it seems like I have to set the tiles around the window and the tiles on the window jamb at the same time or they won't end up aligned with each other, and subject to that constraint, I can't figure out a way to support the tiles at the top of the window. At the current rate of progress, though, I probably have 2-3 weeks before I have to figure it out.

One question: how long do the tiles have to be supported? When is it OK to remove the wedges or my supporting structure?
adrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-28-2004, 10:17 AM   #12
Scooter
Remodeler -- Southern Cal.
 
Scooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 4,345
Versabond on Hardi sets up in about 3 hours.
__________________
Scooter
"Sir, I May Be Drunk, But You're Crazy, and I'll Be Sober Tomorrow"
WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Scooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC