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Unread 03-26-2021, 09:34 PM   #1
JDT
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Grout or Polymeric sand?

Hello everyone,

I’m planning to redo my paver patio with outdoor porcelain pavers (3/4”) set in sand over a compacted base. Can I do an outdoor epoxy grout instead of polymeric sand? Trying to save myself the hassle of redoing the grout lines with the polymeric sand every few years. Figure the grout will last longer. Not sure if it matters but I live in New Jersey where it does get down to 10 degrees at times and there Is a freeze/thaw cycle.

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Joe
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Unread 03-26-2021, 09:43 PM   #2
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Welcome, Joe.

If you don't add that geographic location to your User Profile it'll be lost before we leave this page.

Yes, I suppose you could do that, but I've really not idea how it will work.

Part of the reason for use of polymeric sand that you want water to be able to penetrate the joints, which you will have much less of with the epoxy. While the polymeric sand is said to harden sufficiently to lock the pavers in place, with the type of installation you have there will still be some movement. How that will play out with the epoxy, I do not know. I would not try it, but..........

How large will your joints be?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-26-2021, 11:31 PM   #3
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Çx thanks for the reply.
Location updated. The joints will be 1/8”.
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Unread 03-27-2021, 07:27 AM   #4
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I'm down in Northern Va, Joe, and have a similarly installed paver walkway. While mine hasn't moved much, yet, it will; the substrate just isn't deep enough to get past the frost line.

If you grout it, especially with epoxy, you won't be able to take it apart to make any repairs. The pavers will heave, the grout will crack, or it'll crack the pavers.
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Unread 03-27-2021, 08:30 AM   #5
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I installed a small pad for a customer about 3 years ago. It was about 8 ft x10 ft, something for their grill to set on. I installed 3/4 inch thick slate on packed crushed granite. It's important that the perimeter of the area is closed in so the sand or crushed granite can't wash out. I used Polymeric sand for the grout and it's holding up pretty good. I went back to this job a few weeks ago to do some other work and wanted to check on the pad since I've never used Polymeric sand. I did touch up a couple spots, especially where one of the chair legs dug into the sand. It got semi hard but seemed to be kind of rubbery, which probably works better to move with the slate.

I wouldn't use epoxy grout. It's going to be expensive compared to Polymeric sand and won't hold up with a sand installation.
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Unread 03-27-2021, 11:58 AM   #6
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Ss and Davy. Thank you for your response. Makes sense not to use grout. I started wanting to use polymeric sand and thought it would be maintenance free to use grout but I was wrong.

Davy what polymeric sand did you use? I read online in the Houzz forum that someone used two different types of polymeric sand and after a winter It’s starting to come out. Was thinking to apply a slurry and apply it to the edges for better adhesion. In Australia they apply a slurry to the bottom of the tile before setting it in mortar.
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Unread 03-27-2021, 05:40 PM   #7
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I'll post a pic of what I used.

If you're setting the stone in mortar, a slurry or skim coat of thinset mortar will bond the stone to the mortar. Are you talking about a slurry of polymeric sand under the stone?
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Unread 03-27-2021, 08:37 PM   #8
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Thank you for the Paverset. That’s what I’m going to use. I going to set the pavers in a sand with 3/4” stone as a base. Geotextile in between. In reference to the slurry like you said add to the bottom if using motar.
I was just wondering if you add slurry to the four sides of a porcelain paver, will it give the polymeric sand better adhesion?
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Unread 03-28-2021, 04:20 AM   #9
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Hi Joe

I have a pad I did about 8 years ago and recently I lifted the whole thing up cleaned all the pavers and put them back in, eliminate all the stuff growing up through and just to get a clean look.

Once I had it all back in I used the polymeric sand again. When you put pavers into the sand they should be tight you don't want grout outside because the sun and elements will ruin it. Once your pavers are all in you pour the polymeric sand on top of the pad. Spread it over the pavers making sure you got the the joints filled with the sand. Broom off the excess and if you have any. They then want you to spray a mist with the hose over the pad I guess this firms up the sand. If you do this you should not ever have any issues with movement.

Of course you are only as good as what you are putting your pavers on top of in other words the modified stone base tamped down, then your sand screened to your liking then the pavers. You can use mallet to tamp them into the sand, you should screed the sand for drainage and flatness. Pic of the gator brand.
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Unread 03-28-2021, 04:34 AM   #10
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Yep, we did it just like Jon. Sweep it in and mist it down. Seems like we had to sponge it off the stones here and there.
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Unread 03-28-2021, 07:04 AM   #11
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After my pavers were set the PS was broomed on and I insisted that they use plate vibrator with a hard rubber pad to really work the PS in. They then broomed in more PS and misted it down.
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Unread 03-28-2021, 07:58 AM   #12
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Yes like Dan, originally when I did the pad in 2012 I put down plywood and used the plate vibrator over top so you know the sand is getting down in the joints.

When I recently pulled them all out to clean and put them back in I did not vibrate this time. I didn't feel it made any difference with the outcome, if you see settlement anywhere just add I didn't have any because I groomed over it quite a bit to make sure. The key is the prep a good base and screed the sand and tight pavers. I had the plate vibrator originally when I did the pad to go over the 2a modified stone before I put the sand over top. Very heavy to lug back and forth to the rental place
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Unread 03-28-2021, 10:41 AM   #13
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The pad we installed was out of scrap slate that the homeowner had stacked up in their back yard for 25 years. We ripped different sizes just to use up what they had. They weren't particular at all. As you can see, the joints were 5/8-3/4 wide so the sand was easy to sweep in.
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Unread 03-28-2021, 02:35 PM   #14
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You guys helped me big time. Thank you so much for the help.
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