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Unread 05-18-2016, 05:29 PM   #1
ivwshane
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My Bathroom remodel thread, advice welcome

I'll be remodeling my small bathroom and since I've used this site a lot for info I thought I'd create a thread about it to make sure my thinking is right and to head off any future failures on my part.

The Plan
1) Demo the floor down to the subfloor (t&g).
2) Install honed hexagon mosaic marble tile
A) Lay down a new layer of plywood (I don't know what thickness or type).
B) Lay down hardieboard in modified thinset (with 1/4" square trowel using custom's versabond), screwed using hardieboard screws 8" apart. Tape joints using same thinset.
C) Using same thinset and trowel, lay down mosaic tile after wiping down and slightly wetting hardieboard. Seal with stonetech bulletproof. Grout using sanded grout (I don't know which brand or type). Seal both with stonetech bulletproof. I'll probably do a third coating.
3) Demo shower/tub tile down to studs.
4) Update plumbing from two handle valve to single. I'll be using CC or IPS depending on what the valve I'll be using has.
5) Install white ceramic subway 3x6 tile.
A) I'll be using hardieboard 500, shimmed plumb, with joints taped (I haven't looked into what thinset/mortar to use yet).
B) Paint with at least three layers of redguard, being sure to wipe down the hardieboard first.
C) I haven't researched what thinset/mortar I need to use for ceramic and what size trowel I will need.
D) Grout (I'm assuming I'll be using sanded but I don't know specifics).
6) Wall treatment/medicine cabinet/sink install and reinstall toilet (toto 1.6)

What I'm working with
The house was built in 77.
The bathroom is on the second floor.
The flooring system is a floor truss 24" on center with 3/4" tongue and groove plywood which currently has a 1/2" layer of particle board on it with two layers of vinyl tile.
The bathroom is 8'x6' with 8' ceilings. One wall is an exterior wall with a window.
The wall studs are 16" on center.
The tub is ferrous.
The current flooring (with the particle board) feels very solid with minimal bounce (remember the scene in Jurassic park where the water in the glass vibrates when the t-rex is approaching? It's no worse than that when I jump up and down on the floor).

Issues or concerns I have
1) If after removing the particle board the flooring remains solid and the surface is in good shape and it still feels solid, can I tile on top of that? If I need another layer of plywood, what should I use?
2) How should I attach the flange to the floor through the mosaic marble tile? The flange should rest on top of the marble, correct?
3) When standing in the tub it feels like there is some deflection in it. Should I assume that the bed of mortar it is resting on will need to be redone?
4) Where do people get a marble transition piece from?
5) What mortar/thinset should I use for the shower and ceramic tile?
6) Some say to caulk the corners of the tile, others say grout is fine, what's the correct way?
7) What brand/type of grout do I use for the subway tiles?
8) How will the cutouts for the shower fixtures be waterproofed, just use caulking around all fixtures?
9) What type of caulking is appropriate for the shower (pure latex? what brand)?
10) What have I missed or not thought about? (if you don't see it here please do not assume I know something).
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Unread 05-18-2016, 06:15 PM   #2
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So it looks like the actual subfloor is 3/4" plywood. Can I use 1/2" plywood (what type)?

The flange is also only hanging on half of the plywood. Will I need to reinforce this with blocking of some sort? or will it be ok after adding a layer of 1/2"
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Unread 05-18-2016, 06:18 PM   #3
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Welcome back, Bob.

1. You must have a double layer of plywood or OSB subflooring for any natural stone tile installation. Over what I'm guessing is your [b]nominal[/] 1" plywood (actual 23/32nds or less) you'll need a layer of nominal half-inch exterior glue plywood, then your tiling substrate of choice.

That would presume your joist structure is suitable for the natural stone installation, which it is almost certainly not.

2. What flange would that be?

3. Something should likely be done.

4. I dunno.

5. Lots of options. Best to choose among those readily available in your area.

6. The only correct method is to use a flexible sealant in the tile surface every place the backing material makes a change of plane.

7. See #5.

8. The escutcheon plates are usually sufficient, but you can use a sealant if you like. I seal around the escutcheon/trim plate over the control valve (except for the bottom quarter) after the shower has been tested.

9. 100 percent silicone is good.

[Edit] I see your second post while I was typing. You'll need to do a lot better with that closet flange with your second layer of plywood. Either cut off the flange and make a hole to fit your pipe (but with a gap all around) or fit two pieces of plywood in that area. The flange must sit on top of your finished floor.
My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-18-2016, 06:41 PM   #4
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Excellent! Thank you!

So I will cover the subfloor with 1/2" exterior grade plywood.

Is this ok?
http://www.lowes.com/pd_12190-99899-...ductId=3602774

For this installation, will I need to only screw the two layers of plywood together or will I also need to glue them?

For the toilet flange I guess what I was asking was how do I screw in the flange through the marble tiles? O should I remove the marble tile where the screws will go? (I'm assuming you can't drill a hole through these tiny 1" tiles without breaking them).

For the tub, what is the current typical installation for a metal tub, in terms of supporting it? Concrete? Foam? Nothing?
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Unread 05-18-2016, 08:34 PM   #5
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1. There is no exterior grade plywood. You want exterior glue plywood as evidenced by the term EXT or Exterior or Exposure 1 for the exposure rating in the grade stamp. The grade must be no face lower than grade C, as in AB or AC or BC or similar.

2. Dunno.

3. No glue. Install as close as feasible to the instructions in this good article from our Liberry.

4. Whatever works for you. I usually make small notches in the tiles while setting if I don't wanna drill through them after.

5. Depends upon the tub. Do you know what you've got? Apparently not cast iron.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-18-2016, 11:21 PM   #6
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Ok, I'm racking my brains here trying to find exterior glue plywood or EGP. Apparently this is an industry name for ACX or BCX plywood. Even still, I'm having a hell of a time trying to find it locally.

So, is ACX or BCX what I am looking for or does it need to specifically say EGP? Does lowes or homedepot carry this (I can't find it on their website)? What about meeks?




And kind of off topic. While demoing the tile off of the walls it looks like the tile was glued to the drywall (possibly green drywall), was this a common practice at one time or is this PO hack?
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Unread 05-19-2016, 09:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CX, Post 5
exterior glue plywood as evidenced by the term EXT or Exterior or Exposure 1 for the exposure rating in the grade stamp.
It was once considered acceptable to stick tiles to "MR Board" (greenrock) with organic adhesive in wet areas. Those days are long past. I don't know what a "PO hack" might be, I'm afraid.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-19-2016, 02:56 PM   #8
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My house was built in nearly the same year also in California. It's funny how similar our bathrooms were built. I had the same closet flange half hanging on the subfloor half hanging in the breeze because they cut a square hole way off center. I also had 4x4 tiles mastic'd to greenboard which resulted in major water damage (crumbling green board and tiles falling off and dry rotted lumber underneath). Can't believe this was code approved at the time but apparently it was. The funny thing is when I redid the shower in my mother's house which was built in 1952 it had ugly pink tiles sitting on floated walls. The interior of those walls was still pristine after the demo 60+ years of multiple daily use later so it's not like they forgot how to build lasting showers in the 70's they just took the super fast cheapo budget way to crank out houses.

Anyway, back to your project. You definitely want to check your joist deflection in the calculator before you go spending bucks on a natural stone floor. Like CX said it is doubtful your floor is stiff enough for natural stone. You will still want to throw a 1/2" of plywood over the existing subfloor to stiffen it up as 24" OC spacing allows for a lot of deflection between joists. Also, are you sure it's 3/4 and not 5/8? Regarding the tub you should not feel any movement on it, what is the material of the tub?
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Unread 05-19-2016, 03:20 PM   #9
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The problem is that I have a truss floor, not joists, so the calculator won't work for me. The trusses go from the back to the front of the house (the window in the bathroom would be the back of the house) and there is a load bearing wall that goes perpendicular to the trusses 12' from the back of the house. The floor is indeed 3/4" thick, measured.

So to recap:
truss floor (I'll post a picture of the truss if it helps)
the bathroom rests on 12' span of truss
3/4" plywood

A search for exterior plywood at homedepot yields these:
http://www.homedepot.com/b/N-5yc1v/N...estoreoption=2

None of those look right.
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Unread 05-19-2016, 06:14 PM   #10
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So I've pretty much finished the demoing. The window will come out once I have a replacement.
I'm thinking about bringing the tile all the way to the ceiling, if I do I'll demo out that drywall as well.

I figured there would be some mold and I was right. It doesn't look too serious and the wood around it is still solid so it doesn't look like I'll need to do any reframing. I figure I'll hit it with some bleach before putting up any backerboard. On one side of the tub I removed the drywall about 6" away but its unsupported by a stud so I'll need to add one. On the other side I only removed the drywall up to the edge of the tub because it's supported by a stud. What is the standard for how far out I should remove the drywall? One tile's length (in my case that would be 6")?

I looked under the tub and I couldn't find any issues with the subfloor, very dry but there isn't anything supporting it. Should there be or are steel tubs simply put in as is?

I still would like to completely remove the tub to inspect for any other damage on the wall studs and the condition of the tubs braces.

Any comments or thoughts?
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Unread 05-19-2016, 10:20 PM   #11
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I went to homedepot looking for plywood and I found two possible options that stated they were exposure 1 but I have no idea what the grade is and they both looked like crap to me.

Should I use one of these or keep looking?
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Unread 05-19-2016, 10:22 PM   #12
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For some reason my phone wouldn't upload more than two pics.
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Unread 05-25-2016, 04:26 AM   #13
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I removed the tub today and I have a couple more questions.

Since I'll be adding another 1/2" plywood layer to the floor, is there any reason why I should not also add this to the whole floor and not just the area I was going to tile?

I'm still having trouble finding the appropriate exterior glue plywood with a grade C or better face. Can I use OSB? If so would I need to add something like red guard to it before laying down the hardieboard?

Lastly; since I'm getting a new tub I assume I'll have to get a new drain and overflow piping. The video I looked at used a white plastic kit with compression fittings. I was under the impression that the white plastic stuff is crap and that using compression fittings is only allowed so long as they can be accessed. Am I correct? If so, does anyone have a good how-to video showing how to use/install black PVC for the drain and overflow using glue without an access point?

Thanks!
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Unread 05-25-2016, 06:04 PM   #14
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After reading the installation manual for hardie board, I think I'll go with 15/32" OSB.

I'm also going to use laticrete and their fiberglass mesh for waterproofing and to seal the niche I plan to make.

Because the niche will go on an interior wall between 2x4 studs, do I use construction adhesive to attach the hardieboard to the drywall? Or should I use silicone caulking instead?
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Unread 06-01-2016, 11:56 PM   #15
ivwshane
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So I ran into a couple of issues I need help addressing.

I need to raise the toilet flange to accommodate the new plywood. I don't have access underneath it. I thought I read that there is a tool that can cut the pipe from the inside, is that correct? What's the tool called?

My exterior wall studs aren't flush across the whole wall. I planned on sistering some studs to make everything even but then I'm not sure how I would handle the 10" header above the window. Should I use drywall shims? Is there a better way to make everything even and suitable for 4x3 ceramic tile?
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