Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 07-27-2013, 10:28 AM   #1
Frizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
Small Master Bath Remodel

Hi everybody,

I am having my bathroom completely remodeled from the studs, and the contractor just put up the cement board, sheetrock, and spackled.

After he left, I saw that in some areas, the Durock is crumbled in the corner and in a couple other areas. He also left a space by the front side of the tub where the wood beam is exposed. Is this acceptable?

I've also learned from doing a little quick research just now, that all the seams should be taped, and a water barrier (like Redgard) should be applied on top of the Durock. I'll make sure to question the contractor about that.

Please take a look at the pics, and tell me if you think everything looks ok so far.

Thanks!
Attached Images
     
__________________
Ron
Frizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 07-27-2013, 10:30 AM   #2
Frizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
2 more pics
Attached Images
  
__________________
Ron
Frizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 11:19 AM   #3
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 22,714
Hi Ron,

When the seams and corners are taped with alkali-resistant mesh tape and mudded with thinset, those relatively small areas will be repaired just fine.

The wall area down at shin level......adjacent to the tub's apron on either side is a highly prone area to moisture damage. It's a common area to rot out if it's just drywall...even if tile is covering it. I'd want the cement board substrate to extend out at least 2" out from the face of the tub apron.

And you'll want either a moisture retarder behind the cement board (overlapped onto the tub's tile flange) or a surface waterproofing on the front of the cement board (not both). You've already mentioned and we can see from the picture a lack of a moisture retarder behind, so a surface waterproofer is a good method to proceed from here. This type of paint-on waterproofing is done after the seams are taped, mudded (with thinset), and dried properly. Do realize 2 coats of the appropriate thickness are required by the manufacturer to make it waterproof to their intended level of performance.

Finally, I can't tell from the first picture, but your temporary plaster guard (also serves as a depth guide) from the mixing valve seems like it may be out a little too far. Can you show us a closer picture? A view from the side just like the first pic in your post would be great.

__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 11:28 AM   #4
Frizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
Hi Tool Guy, thanks for your response.

That plastic cover was just about falling off, so I took it off and took the pic:
Attached Images
 
__________________
Ron
Frizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 11:29 AM   #5
Frizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
One other thing I just noticed. When I pushed on the Durock a little bit right around the valve area, it is not completely solid feeling. There is a litte movement. Is that ok?

Thanks.
__________________
Ron
Frizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 11:42 AM   #6
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 22,714
You'll feel a little deflection around the mixing valve hole. So long as it's fastened tight to the studs and they aren't spaced further than 16" part, it is fine.

Can you snap the plaster guard back in position and hold a tile up against the wall immediately adjacent to the plaster guard?

__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!

Last edited by Tool Guy - Kg; 07-27-2013 at 12:34 PM. Reason: spelling
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 11:54 AM   #7
Frizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
sure thing:
Attached Images
  
__________________
Ron
Frizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 12:40 PM   #8
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 22,714
Thanks, Ron. The thickness of that plaster guard represents the "min/max" zone of the finished wall plane. With your tile face falling comfortably within the "min/max" zone (even with the expected added mortar thickness during install), you're good to go.
__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 12:50 PM   #9
Frizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
Thanks Tool Guy!

It's the first time I've been through this, and will be the last (at least in this condo), so I want to make sure everything is done right
__________________
Ron
Frizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 01:11 PM   #10
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 22,714
Condo, eh? Are you in a high-rise? Are you tiling the floor, as well? If so, there is very often a "condo enforced requirement" to use some type of sound dampening membrane under your hard tile floor so your downstairs' neighbors don't hear you stompin' around. Do you know if your condo has this requirement? While all the condos I've worked in require this in some capacity, sometimes they are subdued if the tile is limited to just the bathroom, kitchen, & possibly foyer. You'll have to check, as this is up to each condo association board to make up their own rules.

__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 02:28 PM   #11
Frizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
I have a 1st floor unit and a finished basement, so nobody below me.

I wish there was nobody above me either

They should have a rule that the people upstairs have to have carpeting.
__________________
Ron
Frizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2013, 04:26 PM   #12
Ken
welchtile.com
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,082
Ron,

With regards to your concerns about the Durock being some what damaged, as long as your tile contractor properly tapes the seams and other areas that have been damaged, the installation will be fine. The other areas that I speak of are any broken or damaged areas that are not near a seam.. so he should apply some mesh tape over that portion and pack it with thinset. I've personally broken 1000s of sheets of Cement Backer Units in my career, no problems as of yet.. so no worries.
__________________
Ken
Ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-28-2013, 07:44 PM   #13
Frizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
Thanks Ken

My contractor texted me and said he would be coming over Tuesday morning to do the tiling and have me show them how I want it installed.

I responded:

"Are you going to tape the seams of the cement board with mesh tape, and paint on waterproofing stuff (like Redgard) first?"

His response:

"Yes we tape the seams when ready to install the tile. The waterproofing you are mentioning is not needed. You will have a leakproof shower without it. If you insist on having it done, this will have an additional cost."

I texted back that I want it done and asked what the additional cost is.
Still waiting to hear back. A gallon of that stuff costs $50. Anyone want to take a guess what his 'charge' will be?

I guess this is strike 1 against this guy. Now I'm getting nervous about his tile guy. He better do a good job.

As far as taping the seams goes, would he be able to do that and then install the tile right away? Or would that have to dry first for a certain amount of time?
__________________
Ron
Frizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-28-2013, 09:27 PM   #14
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 22,714
The thinset would have to dry overnight before applying the RedGard.

Once the thinset is dry, 2 coats can typically be applied on the same day. The first coat will probably be dry enough for a second coat within an hour or so. And the second coat, while taking longer to dry will be ready within probably a couple of hours. The time is really dependent on the temperature and humidity, though. The stuff goes on pink and turns dark red when dry. One of the biggest mistakes folks make is not applying it thick enough. Each of the two wet coats should be 30-35 mils in thickness. This is checked with a wet film gauge. The stuff dries and shrinks to half of its wet thickness. So, the final dry thickness should be 30-35 mils thick. Here's Custom's instructions for RedGard.

When the second coat is dark red, it's ready to tile.

__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-28-2013, 09:33 PM   #15
dhowardpeters
Overthinkin' wife of a caveman
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
paint-on waterproofing is done after the seams are taped, mudded (with thinset), and dried properly. Do realize 2 coats of the appropriate thickness are required by the manufacturer to make it waterproof to their intended level of performance.
Hey, Ron. If your contractor had put poly behind the cbu (overlapping the tub flange), then he could have taped the seams while installing the tile, but, since he didn't, he will have to waterproof the surface of the cbu. You have chosen a liquid-applied product for this. Therefore, he will have to prepare the seams first, like Bubba described.

*I hope a pro will further address the front sides of Ron's tub (tub legs) where there is no cbu. I don't think that important issue has been resolved. I wouldn't know what specific instructions to give the contractor to resolve it, short of explaining the problem and telling him to fix it.

Why do so many contractors think cbus alone provide a leak-proof shower? I've read many threads where the homeowner was told this.

From listening to the pros here, my understanding is that while cbus are immune themselves to damage from water, they can allow water to pass through to your structure. Same with thinset and grout. Therefore, cbus, thinset and grout are not waterproof, and an additional water capturing/routing material is absolutely required, i.e. poly behind OR a surface-applied liquid or fabric membrane.

Good Luck, Ron. I'm glad you're here
__________________
Donna
dhowardpeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Small Master Bath Remodel deashby Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 07-10-2011 11:29 PM
Questions on remodel of small master bath tiger65rick Tile Forum/Advice Board 99 02-06-2011 11:27 AM
Snowwolf's small master bath remodel Snowwolfjd Tile Forum/Advice Board 19 11-28-2010 06:58 PM
TN_Chris' small master bath remodel TN_Chris Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 07-13-2008 10:37 PM
Getting into a Small Master Bath Remodel OhioJay Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 06-20-2007 11:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:54 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC