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Unread 03-29-2010, 11:39 AM   #1
JimInStLouis
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Jim's Small Bathroom Remodel

Howdy forum!
I've been lurking for a little while and seems to be lots of knowledgeable guys around, so I thought this would be the place to ask my question.

I'm doing some work at my Mothers home. Built in 1940's. I had a badly rotted floor joist under the tub which has been cut out and will be replaced with a 10 foot sister piece.
This part is under control.

My real problem, and what brings me here, is that all of the joists have been shaved to a peak. The old tile floor used a mudbed layer, they peaked the joist for screeding purposes I suppose, but all all the mud sub floor and ledges for the sub floor have been removed.

I am not looking to re-mud the floor and am looking to put a 3/4 inch think plywood subfloor in with a 1/2 durock substrate, then marble mosaic tile + cast iron tub.

These peaked joists are giving me problems on several levels;
1. They are shaved below level of the top of the joists and the edge of the surrounding support as seen at first photo on bottom of post.
(Edit: photos added to bottom of post as CX recommended.)

2. The joists are very uneven due to the shaving.
Also, I would not want to have a sub floor resting on a pointed joist even if it was straight.

Here is another pic of the sub floor removed and the joists,
(2nd photo at bottom of post.)

How is this problem normally addressed? I really would rather not use a mud bed. I thinking of sistering 2X10s along side each 2x10 joist, and then screwing the sub floor into the sisters. The only problem there is that, when it comes time to sell the house, havening 5 sistered joists might/will raise some red flags for people, and I would like a solution that isn't going to do that.
I guess I have to keep open to the idea of a mudbed? Gasp.

Thank You!
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Last edited by JimInStLouis; 03-29-2010 at 12:16 PM.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 11:58 AM   #2
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The sistering is a perfectly acceptable solution, although you do not need 2x10s for this purpose. 2x4s (or 2x6s if you need the height) would be just fine - you don't need strength from them, assuming the existing 2x10s are in good shape.

Regarding the resale issue, I'm not sure why anyone will ever see your work after it is finished (under the floor?). Even if they did, there is nothing wrong with what you are proposing. For complete piece of mind, the best bet would be to have the job permitted and inspected, which will document that it was done correctly.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 11:59 AM   #3
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Welcome, Jim.

Anti-spam measure is keeping you from posting links, but we'd much prefer you use the Manage Attachments feature below the Reply dialog box to post photos from your computer. That way they become a permanent part of our site and don't disappear when your online storage facility goes away or changes the urls somehow.

Without the photos, I would say the very best approach would likely be to install new subflooring between the joists and do a new mud bed.

If you decline that method, as you suggest, second best is to scab some sister joists to the existing ones and making the new sisters the correct height for your planned subflooring. This might also help bring the joist structure up to the required deflection standards if they area bit shy. Very likely, that.

Then you can install plywood (preferably a couple layers), a tiling substrate of your choice, and tile.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 03:56 PM   #4
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The old joists were peaked for a few reasons. It helped prevent the drypack slab from cracking and gave a little more depth to the floor. It worked well.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 05:52 PM   #5
scuttlebuttrp
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What CX said.
And as far as resale value; if anyone asks just show them the pics of the original joists ands explain that you rebuilt it correctly following proffessional advice.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 06:49 PM   #6
JimInStLouis
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Thanks to you all!

I wanted to note that I do have a permit from my city to do the work and that I will have my local building inspector look everything over before it is all said and done.

Appreciate the advice, I'm going to go with the 2 x 6 at 10 feet long, screwed into the old joists. I assume 16 penny nails would work just as well, but I don't have a nail gun.

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Unread 03-29-2010, 07:19 PM   #7
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I prefer screws for such subfloor work. And I got plenty nail guns.

I pewt always glue of some sort between all pieces of a subfloor installation or repair, too. Construction adhesive in your case. My choice would be PL Premium. It's available at Homer's.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-02-2010, 10:35 AM   #8
JimInStLouis
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Thanks for the tip on the PL Premeum. Seems like a good product, low fumes, and, if it works as advertised, it's worth the extra $2.50.

I've got all the joists sistered with 2x6 yellow pine.
And just finished up with the joist that actually did require structural attention. This piece was rotted almost the whole way though the joist.

I cut about a 5 foot section off, from the rot to the header.
Then sistered a 2x10, at 10 feet long, with PL to the remaining section of the old joist.

My question is about the carriage bolts.
At the moment I have about 80 pounds of torque on the bolts (pretty tight), but it occurred to me that the joists need to flex a little as they work.

Once the glue sets up, should I back the nuts off the bolts a little, maybe taking it down to around 40 pounds of torque, or should I just let it be?
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Unread 04-02-2010, 10:52 AM   #9
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Just let'em be.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 05:25 PM   #10
JimInStLouis
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Material to use on exposed wall (above tile) in shower?

This is for a DIY project at my mothers home.

The tile is going up the wall about 5 feet. That will leave about 2 feet or so of wall exposed. This will be painted. There also will be an arch way above the shower that is not going to be tiled. These areas were all plaster before I tore them out. Under the tile will be Durock.

I was thinking of using green board on the exposed part, but after some reading, it just looks like that is not the right product for the long haul. Even though it will be higher up in the shower, this wall is still going to get a good bit of water.

Your thoughts on this are appreciated, perhaps I am going to need to looking to some lessons on plastering.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 05:40 PM   #11
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Welcome Jim,

Just use regular old drywall, quality primer & paint, multiple coats and a semi-gloss finish coat. Many paints have mold inhibitors as well, perfect place for em. Primer/sealer's are also a good idea.

In my experience, green board has been more trouble than it's worth.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 05:52 PM   #12
JimInStLouis
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Thanks for the welcome!

I got some great help on my last post about a rotted floor joist. Really top place you guys have here.


Regular old drywall huh? Not even the green stuff.. you ok to add to that part of your post? Do you see a problem with that product, or just that perhaps you see it as a redundancy?

With a nice coat of primer, paint, caulk it stands to reason that it would be OK, but I sure would feel bad if something went wrong/ leaked a year or two down the line. For sure open to the idea though.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 06:24 PM   #13
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Hey Jim, Don't forget to put a good exhaust fan in there close by, it'll help with the vapor. Got some stock in them fans and need all the funds I can get.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 06:27 PM   #14
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Your tile should run up at least to just above the shower head. I prefer tiling right up to the ceiling; not a big fan of having that little strip of painted wall.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 06:39 PM   #15
dhagin
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Yep, regular old drywall. Green board is structurally less rigid than regular old drywall. For this reason alone, I don't use it. It's more expensive and it harbors mold as well as any other board in my experience. Not sure what it's supposed to resist, but I don't see it resisting anything better than regular old drywall.

Now, leaks from sealing have nothing to do with any of this. Any waterproofing or moisture-proofing as it relates to direct spray from the shower needs to dealt with other ways...

If you're planning on spraying water up there, or if the shower is designed such that water will be sprayed up there, then maybe running the waterproofing up to, & possibly including, the ceiling is a better idea...
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