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Unread 01-26-2010, 10:13 PM   #1
Aquera
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Ditra and Marble/Granite MODIFIED mortars

I'm bidding a job that consists of 700 square feet of 24x24 Iranian marble over a fresh concrete (poured yesterday) basement in a new home. The customer seems cheap, so I'm wondering how long I'd have to let the concrete cure before I could install tile, although I almost want to tell him I won't do the job if he doesn't want Ditra as well... anyhow, as far as I know I ABSOLUTELY MUST use special MODIFIED mortar for marble because anything else could leach through and stain, am I correct or is there a way around this? Also, if I'm installing Ditra, from what I know the only way I can use the modified stuff is if I fill the waffles first right? Is there a better way to do this?

thanks in advance
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Unread 01-26-2010, 10:20 PM   #2
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Hi Mike, use Ditra Set for the marble. Use it under and over.
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Unread 01-26-2010, 10:39 PM   #3
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28 days is the standard curing time for concrete. If you let it cure I would put a roll on crack isolation membrane first (reguard, hydroban, ect.).

I think the white ditraset would be a good option for ditra (as mike said) but I haven't ever personally installed marble with it.
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Unread 01-26-2010, 10:47 PM   #4
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I think Ditra can be put over the concrete as soon as it can be walked on.
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Unread 01-27-2010, 12:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musky
I think Ditra can be put over the concrete as soon as it can be walked on.
Yep yep. I think the exact wording is something along the lines of "as soon as the concrete can support trade traffic."
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Unread 01-27-2010, 12:23 AM   #6
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I can't get ditra set where I live - what else could I use?
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Unread 01-27-2010, 01:51 AM   #7
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Feel free to correct me if im wrong but its minimum 90 days before you can set to new concrete. and you better not cheat this either coz you can and will get tenting, thats when the concrete shrinks but the tile and grout dont. pop it right off the floor.

It cures in 28 days but takes much longer for all the water that was not used in internal hydration to evaporate out the slab. this means it shrinks from losing volume(water).
Standard concrete 35% hydration 65% evaporation....i think. it can take years for all the water to be gone but most is within 90 days.

all marble that was put down before the 1950,s was put down with unmodified so not sure who told u that but were talking thousands of years.and some of those jobs still have not failed.

By iranian marble I assume you descibing a limestone or maybe even a travertine.

these are real porous stones so I would not be very worried about moisture being trapped between the ditra or membrane since the stone will allow it to dry. Hence not much need to use a speed set or a unmodified imho. Speed set sucks to work with on stone.. you need time to get it nice and flat specially if your new to stone. And unmodified isnt the best option either coz with the added stress of the slab you need more bonding..and that means wetter thinset...not good when your trying to level stone.

What you do have to worry about is slab movement ..the membrane should help that.

So you need a white modified mortor and since you dont want it to sink the next day use a medium bed mortor(bigger sand in it)....your basic marble and granite mortor from a home store...It will let you use bigger notches that will help when you level the tile.

OR you can do a wet set installation too if you want and know a little about mud work. Theres some tutorials for that around here somewhere. Im not the best guy to ask about that. but if your working with a pretty big tile I think that could be a good choice.

Ditra would work but I personally would rather use noble ts or even kerdi. reason bieng is when you have to keep lifting the tile to add or subtract mortor you dont want the ditra lifting with it.

my .02
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Unread 01-27-2010, 05:47 AM   #8
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28 days is the generally accepted time period if you plan on setting direct to concrete.

Ditra can be used as soon as the new concrete can support foot traffic.

Kerdi has no approved use outside of a shower.
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Unread 01-27-2010, 01:20 PM   #9
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I want to use custom building products "marble and granite" modified mortar, but you can't use modified over Ditra unless you fill the waffles and let dry first, which I want to avoid (I've done this on smaller projects, but 700 square feet is too much work)

so what kind of mortar can I use over Ditra, that's okay to use on marble?
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Unread 01-27-2010, 05:58 PM   #10
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Mike, if you cant get ditraset, I would try and get ahold of some laticrete 220. Its there Marble mix. It is a modified mortar, but my rep tells me only slightly. I would just keep traffic out for at least 48hr
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Unread 01-27-2010, 06:30 PM   #11
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It wouldn't bother me to prefill 700 ft. Keeps ya from having to mix so much on setting day and you could use your modified mix for your big stones.
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Unread 01-27-2010, 06:37 PM   #12
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Actually, there is no Schluter spec for using modified mortar whether you pre-fill or not. I don't worry about the warranty, but if you do you'd better follow the specs.
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Unread 01-27-2010, 06:41 PM   #13
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I knew there was no spec for modified but I have done it before this way.

The no-warranty thing has never bothered me.
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Unread 01-27-2010, 07:02 PM   #14
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so basically I have to use Ditraset in order to get a warranty from them? I have no other choice in mortar?
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Unread 01-27-2010, 07:11 PM   #15
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You have other choices.

Any UNmodified mortar you want to trust.

I'm not a big fan of ditra-set. It's ok but I don't use it much.

Versabond for me. No warranty of course but I don't need no stinking warranty.
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